Use of frame machine for hot rods

watched some old american hot rod videos trying to get some clues because i have so few. in one episode they buy a chief ez liner frame machine and mount an old car car body on it and then they show a laser measuring machine and computer. boyd mumbles something about this new machine is going to save them a lot of time. i am left wondering how it will save them a lot of time and what they will really use this machine and the laser measuring system and computer for? i did not notice in any of the other episodes that they were pulling car bodies to get them straight. all i ever noticed is a car body mounted to the chief ez liner frame machine. never do i see it being used. what do you use this machine for when building hot rods? i always thought a machine like this was just for smashed up unibody cars to pull them into alignment.

 

Time saved if any would most likely be by the lazer picking up set points while the mechanic works on the frame saving a lot of tape measure time.

The work ends up being exactly the same in the end but the tools you use sometimes make things a bit easier or a bit more accurate.

 

A frame machine to build cars is about as good as it gets. If you know what your doing! I did heavy collision before I got my teaching gig. The chief is a great machine. Good body over frame machine. I'm no fan of laser measuring systems, I prefer mechanical. We have a frame fabrication project at school that's on an older car-o-liner. Makes a great bench. And you can accurately measure what your building, new or old, and pull and align damage in old frames.
<<<<<< that's my rear motored falcon sitting on one

 

so it's not just for car bodies but for building and repairing frames. i can see this being a big help.

eliminating the tape measure time i can see. thank you for pointing this out!

are the pulling towers on the frame machine really of much use for straightening out old car bodies?

what is used most often to straighten out old car car bodies?

a porta power?

welding in braces and using them for leverage?

can't see those pulling towers being much help for a car body but that's probably because i don't have any experience with them or with other methods.

 

what don't you like about the laser measurement? take too long to set up? not accurate if they get dirty? one advantage of the frame machine is the fixturing that comes with it so you don't have to weld the body in place?

 

Frames and or bodies or complete cars can be mounted on a frame machine. There's all kinds of fixtures. In the old days we used chain and blocks. Frame racks have been around a long time! The towers are great for pulling body or frame. Porta powers are used, along with all kinds of other attachments for both pulling and pushing. There's a lot of different styles of racks and towers. My favorite is the car-o-liner drive on. Close second is the chief, but it's huge!

I don't care for the laser systems I've used. Again there's quit a few out there. The ones I'v used need "line of sight" to targets. In heavy collision most moved and had to be re calibrated after a heavy pull.
The old car o liner ladder and bridge system is still my favorite. The electronic system on the new drive on rack is awesome, but I like to see the physical alignment with the measuring system. I'm old! The rack in my avatar uses towers that attach anywhere around the rack. The Chief uses towers that are on a swivel under the rack. They swing around the rack and are pinned in place to use.

 

I would love to have a modern frame table like Boyd had, those things in the right hands are awesome stuff!

Instead, I built a simple table with a scribed line down the middle. Saves me a ton in setup time, I can check frames for straightness and it's versatile as all get out.

 

totally get why you prefer the physical alignment and the problem with laser line of sight. Do you or anyone else have any links that show someone actually using this shit? Really appreciate your time to answer my dumb fuck questions.

 

At the school I worked at we used the old tables made by Blackhawk. They were great for frame fabrication

 

The scribed line serves as a baseline to measure from and also gives you a way to compare right to left sides? Anything else?

 

Here's a unibody on a car-o-liner drive on. You can see the tower in the background.

 

The car was pulled and measured before cutting apart.

 

The table is symetrical, has a grid of threaded holes in the top, level and clean. I can hang a tape measure or square just about anywhere and can figure left/right references. The threaded holes are fantastic for fixturing up odd assemblies.

When I use my table in conjunction with my design software I establish the center lines and datums, I can easily work from one to the other.

 

Nice ElP. Love seeing your work

 

Nice facet about these frame machines is that they keep everything square. I was looking for one to put my '62 Fairlane on, so I could cut the front out, and weld in a new front suspension. All-the-while, I could keep it still, so I could replace the floor, and tub the back half.

Doing this on an uneven garage floor, with all that cutting and welding, things start to move around on ya, and it doesn't end up square.... which translates into can't go as fast.

 

I have a Chief EZ Liner and use it for frame work. I bought it several years ago after I sold my dealership and semi-retired and started doing (mostly) Jeep rebuilders for fun and profit. I did a lot of frame (Wrangler) and Unibody (Cherokee) work. I also did several other vehicles, both unitized and frame/body during that period.

But after I discontinued rebuilders, I found it perfect for building a frame or setting up a clip or ????? Very heavy table, flat and level in all directions, lots of rectangular holes for anchors and tooling, good working height......what's not to like. In addition to the trusty tape measure, I also have chassis alignment measuring guages and trammel points to aid in putting, and keeping, everything in it's place.

If I hadn't had it "left over" from the earlier use I would likely not have bought one just for hot rod use. Most likely would have made something smaller and of simpler construction, but I am glad I have it.

Ray

 

This is my "once was* unibody Falcon on a rotisserie, over the frame mock up on the early style car-o-liner. Once we finished the frame mock up we mounted the body in the pinch weld clamps with the frame on the bench. I'm now working out the details and drive train with everything firmly and accurately in place. Yes tools rock!

 

thats a super rad front suspension setup you got there. props!

 

I sell Car-O-Liners for a living, been working on them since 93...i would never use anything else myself...its all about training and support though....its over kill probably on old stuff, but lasers etc are a big part of the repair..

its like this...60s cars tolerances where + or - 3/4s of an inch new stuff are plus or minus 3 mm...so no way are ya fixing new cars like old...most of the stuff out there is 40 year old technology, and people think that thats the way we did it back then so it must be good enough..

I was technical support and a trainer in 5 states for 10 years when i first started working for Car-O-Liner..and ive fixed a lot of wrecks on a lot of different equipment...i learned something...work smart..not hard....

the whole equipment business is like the car hobby..some guys love chevys some love fords..same with us..some just cant stand COL and think Chief is the only machine out there... others get wise and love the COL...its preference

 

Is that an air bag/torsion set up? Way cool.

 

What is that setup for, incredibly simple idea. Big pats on the back for thinking that one up.

 

I use a frame machine in my shop as a jig. Especially when doing lots of repair or fab on a unibody car like an early Camaro or Mustang.

 

Seems like the biggest use for a frame machine when building hot rods is as a jig and not for pulling.

 

What's to pull unless something is damaged?



I suppose I don't understand your original question.

 

i guess it was a dumb ass question. i think it's because i really don't understand how you pull a body and get it straight. seems like it would be more art than science despite these fancy machines.

 

Well, briefly, in the repair realm the idea is to "reverse" the damage. You anchor the body/chassis securely to the frame bench and atttach clamps or other tooling to the offended part(s) and pull in the opposite direction of the impact to restore the original dimension and shape. That's a bit of oversimplification, but it is the process.

Even if you are going to replace a section, you want the surrounding structure as near to the original configuration as possible before cutting away the part to be replaced.

It is, I think, mostly 'science', but a healthy dollop of experience ("art") smooths the path. Nice sense of accomplishment when you are done and things fit and work properly.

Ray

 

I wish we had a "frame" machine at work. These old cars aren't getting any straighter. Every car I've worked on in the last year has had some sort of previous damage that wasn't repaired properly or at all.

 

We use our Cheif easy liner as a frame jig for hot rods regularly. With all the frame clamps gauges and other tooling these things come with it makes a great tool to build or modify a car chassis as well as a good place to Aline a front end.
ours has 4 towers 3 on the front and 1 on the rear that will pull from almost any direction as needed . Sometimes you just have to tug on things a tiny bit to make things fit perfect and even if nothings bent or twisted its a perfectly square and flat surface to measure and build from.
We have used it to straiten every thing from pick nick tables to wrecked snowmobiles and fixed hundreds of wrecked cars and trucks but It also makes great frame jig
Oh yea with a few sheets of plywood it also works as a fantastic stage for dancing girls (strippers) with built in poles!!!!!

 

Go to Elpolacko's Industrial Chassis Facebook page for all the day-to-day work. Steve posts pictures of in-work projects. The airbag front suspension was supposed to be a front clip on an existing frame that ended up being a complete new frame. You always go to Industrial Chassis to fix what some so-called "professional" shop screwed-up. Watch the Master at work. I wouldn't trust anybody else with my car project chassis work.

 

i like Elpolacko's stands for the shrinker/stretcher head. i have watched videos of others using them with the stand it comes with and you can see how the shrinker/stretcher moves all over the place with that stand. if i was trying to work a piece of sheet metal that movement would drive me up a wall. unlike the stand the shrinker/stretcher head comes with his stands look to be much better in design. i looked but i could not find a video of the Elpolacko stand being used to see if the shrinker/strecher head moves at all.

from exploring his web page and facebook page i guess he's using a solid modeler to design a good deal of his stuff. think that is very smart move. i also use a solid modeler but not the one he uses. i prefer to work my machining fixtures out on computer in 3D. when i finish developing toolpaths i like to simulate the entire machining process with those fixtures to see if there are any problems.