1946 ford head scratcher, front end side to side.

Alright guys, I got one for ya.

When we bought the ford it had a bachelor lean just short of a lowrider pulling a three wheel, i figured it was a mix between sitting on a hill and, well, what ever typically causes a bachelor lean haha.

Over time it began to settle out and I figured that ditching the old stock lever action shocks and the stock spring would get us all the way flat. or at least close enough to stick a shim in there and get it good.

However, as it approached leveling out i noticed that the passenger side tire was nearly rubbing the fender where the drivers side tire was nearly 4 inches away from the fender.

so the axle is off center by about 2 inches, maybe less.

heres a photo.




Now as ive reached the point in my build where im about to put it back together I'm trying to figure out what the issue is if i get it back bolted together with a new spring and shackles and its still off.

The car has obviously been 'tapped' some time in the past but so far everything seems to be where its supposed to be. the triangulation of the motor mounts and trans mounts that were installed based off reference points on the frame all lined up perfect when dropping the drive-train in.

the sheet metal has equal gaps and fitment from side to side, and when everything came part it did not apear to have anything binding. the stock pan hard and sway bars were not jambed twisted or appearing to be bent in any non stock way. The axle also seems to be sitting straight as far as front to back goes, its just off side to side as i see it.

I had it all mocked up yesterday and with the new spring clamped to the cross member and the pan hard bar bolted to the bracket on the frame. the axle was just sitting under the car on tires so distances to each other seem to be similar to what youd expect if everything was bolted together but the car was supported by the frame letting the suspension 'sag'

and sure as shit it really looks like it was to go to the passenger side.


hmmm.

now granted most the times ive been under the car its been for something else, dark, or really flippin hot out so its entirely possible im missing something. But the only thing I can 'maybe' see is viewing the cross member from the front it appears that just past the U bolt towards the drivers side the center bit of the cross member is maybe a quarter to half inch higher than the passenger side.

I'm basing that mostly off looking at the pan that's under the radiator that butts up close to the cross member and were it lines up with it. It appears that that is the only skew in the member, the top were to stock motor mounts are located are where they are supposed to be and level as fords ever where.

I had thought maybe I didn't have the locating pin on the spring in the hole, i checked and it was.

I was thinking that if just that lower center bit of the crossmember is just barely tweaked that maybe the spring wasn't/ isn't seating flat but slanted with the tweak. This would pivot the axel and possibly bring a wheel in....but i can't see it bringing the otherside out?

I'm stumped. Any thoughts? if it was just leaning it wouldnt be a big deal to sort but it all being over to the side like this just isnt going to work.

ideas? thoughts? Next monday when i get back to the car im going to measure from the centering/ locating hole for the spring to each side and see what im looking at.

until then.....

 

Take the Locator bar off and see where it settles at. If it is the wrong one it'll pull the axle over. Also make sure the shackles are hanging properly and ones not in and ones out. If that's not it then check the frame for square. sometimes a hard whack to the axle won't show on the sheetmetal and when they replace it all you won't be able to tell. But clearly something is out of square.


Good Luck,

Tim

 

Something is tweaked. If you need any reference measurements we have my Son's 46 Tudor in the shop and I can get you measurements off of it, if that will help.

Don

 

Yeah somethings not quite right.

If you can reach down in there can you get me the centering/locating hole for the spring on the top of the member to where it flattens out for the waterpump mounts. that way i'll have something to compare it to.

I feel like the problem is hiding in the lower center of the cross member. Ill try it with out the locator bar also when I get back out there.

Does anyone make a new stock style cross member for these cars? I haven't seen anything other than speedways 3 inch drop one. and honestly that realy realy seems like its going to hit the crank pully unless i find one substancialy smaller.

 

If you have a new spring that's lowered in any fashion, the panhard bar is probably going to need modification to work correctly. I second the recommendation to remove it and see where she stands.

How about dropping a plumb bob from the outer edge of the fender in the center of the wheelwell arc, and measuring to the frame rail? Should tell you right away if the sheetmetal is centered on the frame (or the frame is off center from the sheetmetal).

That car originally had a big yoke that held the inner fender panels to the center of the crossmember, didn't it? Is it still in there? Does it look tweeked?

 

the yoke being the large U shape near where the radiator mounts? if so yes its there and looks un messed with. when i pulled the radiator the fitment was uniform side to side.

I like your idea of dropping a line and measuring in. and I hadn't thought about the panhard bar being to long or 'off' after dropping it.



a quick scribble looking at it head on.

a: the measurement i asked Don for
b: the lower dropped section of the crossmember
c: were i was seeing the possible tweak.

I'm leaning towards the panhard bar right now, keep the ideas coming.

 

Something you can check real easy without removing anything: First make sure the spring center bolt is in it's hole in the crossmember. Is it? OK. Then see if the shackles have the same angle of dangle on each side. If they do, I'd say the panhard bar is not your problem. I'd say the axle is where it's supposed to be in relation to the frame.

Then take the wheels off and measure the fender-to-frame distances.

Or, is one wheel offset more than the other? That would be too much of a dumb mistake wouldn't it?

 

haha, i know that they appear to be the same wheel but they have different rubber on them. maybe i'll pull them and measure at the drum. I wont be back out to work on the car until next monday/tuesday so ill take in as many ideas as i can get to try out.

 

I've got the engine out of my 42 and can get you some measurements too if needed. Hope it's an easy fix for ya.

 

Thanx blacktopbuddha, anything helps

 

Did you check to see if the cowl is centered ? Could the body itself be off center? Just a thought. I think the "yoke " you are referring to is the core support. John

 

ill be double checking it all but yes it appears to be centered. the car had its steering and all the extra do dads bolted on when i got the car and nothing seems to have been pushed around at all?

thinking back there is a small ding on the outside of the drivers frame rail about were there steering box bolts on but on the other side. its pretty small so i can't imagine it did any alignment damage, i looked at it a couple months ago and everything still looked straight and true. everything mounted were its supposed to be and no bind in site.

it has the steering box bracket right on the other side with the boxing plate run there also so id be pretty surprised if an area that beefed up was my culprit.

that being said ill be going over everything with a fine tooth comb next time im back out there for sure.

The hood, fenders and etc all line up just fine. hmmm.

 

If your hood lines up well on the cowl and the hood latch pin is centered in the lock/latch on the grill then the sheet metal is not the problem. What about the wheels ? I know its unlikely , but we are brainstorming here. Is it possoble the wheel backspacing could be so different as to cause the difference.

Level the frame side to side, then withe the wheels off and a plumb line in the center of the wheel opening measure plumb line to frame and plumb line to brake drum on each side. This should tell you what is going on. John

 

I think the problem is the center bolt of your front spring that locates the spring in the hole in the center of the crossmember. If this bolt shears off, it will allow the spring to shift to one side and allow the leaves to shift in relation to each other after the sheared off bolt falls out the bottom of the spring. This will not only put your whole front suspension off center, it will, as leaves shift to one side, in effect making the spring stiffer on one side than the other, which of course will make it lean. If the U bolts are not as tight as they should be and the spring is not pulled up tight into the crossmember, this is GUARANTEED to happen. Happened to me on my '38 Ford pickup, can happen on any old Ford with transverse springs.

 

I'll give it a shot, the wheels are 16x something like 4.5 of 5.5 either way it doesnt seem like you'd get -2" one side and +2 the other side. Guess I could swap tires side for side and find out haha.

Hopefully I find some sort of answer next Monday so I can kill the gremlin

 

38fordpickup. That's what i figured was the culprit when it was all stock, I figured if it wasn't sitting on the pin then It would be off to the side sitting on the arc and throwing it all off.

But now I've got a brand new spring and I know it's sitting I the hole. As it were the old spring did have its locating snub intact. When I get on a real computer I'll post a pick of the old spring

 

Oh and side note the wheels are the 1940-48 stock ford 16 inch

 

oh, i dont know if i mentioned it before but if i could also get the inner edge of the rail to the opposite side inner edge of the rail at the very back edge of the cross member and also the front?

thanx guys

 

old spring, new spring

 

Is your front bumper centered on the fenders? I had this same problem with my 48 convert, when the body was placed on the frame it was off center at the rear and the oposite at the front. The cowl was centered but the whole body was crocked. Loosen up the mounting bolts and center body. Good luck

 

Hmm, good thought! I know that the car has been bumped enough to mess up the bumper on that side of the car. The gaps between the inner fender and the frame are the same side to side so it seems unlikely. But this weekend in my flurry of measuring I'm going to measure the edge of the fender to the frame and see if the are the same.

After you mention this possibility I will also measure the rear gaps side to side. I'd much rather have to move the body around then dick with the cross member. I'll keep you all posted, and thank you VERY much for all of the suggestions

 

Having build one 46-48 Ford I am really fond of them, there a neat and affordable body style, and look pretty cool when you get them dropped down.

I've been watching your build and noticed the left front fender looks a little "wonky" like it is pushed back and probably out to the left. The headlight area is not right, and even into the grill area it looks off.

Perhaps the frame is fine and it is just sheet metal, but as others have said I would get underneath and take some diagonal measurements from the cowl forward and perhaps further back as well. Check the shape of the radiator saddle as well, and the front X member to see if any of the rivets are strained or brackets bent.

If it were mine I would try to find a new left front fender, and grill, sheet metal behind the grill, perhaps a whole clip as 46-48 parts are reasonably cheap.

 

The new spring appears to be lower than the original, this could cause a panhard bar to pull the axle over to one side.

 

Yes the drivers fender is tweaked for sure. I'll be measuring like mad this Monday/Tuesday trying to figure it out.

As for the new spring being lower/panhard issue it was off about the same with the stock bits but when I get it together I will try it with out the pan hard.

Reeeeaaallly hoping it's sheetmetal or hard related but I'm starting to feel doubtful. :S

 

Looking at your car the front drivers side has been hit. The fender looks like it is bowed out from the compression. That would make it look like the axle is off center. Take the fenders off the car and lay them on the ground next to each other. Im thinking the driver side will be proud of the passenger side. Do you have any front on pictures you can post?

 

Heres what Im talking about. Look at the two fenders. The drivers side is all bulged out.

 

Tim, I haven't forgotten that measurement you asked for, I just haven't been to the shop for a couple of nights. Will be there tomorrow night and will get you all the measurements I can.

Don

 

Ditto, drop the panhard rod,...with car sitting on it's wheels....That still sounds like a good possibility.....

Both the old and new springs look ok in the picture.

4TTRUK

 

I'd take a good look at rattletrap's suggestion...

4TTRUK

 

Your problem is beyond the front suspension. Check out the angle of the grille bars relative to the bumper, and the distance between the headlights and bumper. Your car has been "tweaked" sometime in its lifetime.