It won't be long before I start doing some filler work on my 34 5 window project. I was wondering about the product known as All-Metal VS. body filler(Rage). Any thoughts about the uses or advantages or disadvantages of these products would be helpful. Inquiring minds wanna know. Thanks guys!
I used it on the back of my roadster's quarter panels and firewall. Both had really thin metal but I'm not at a point to be able to replace them so I tried it. It's a ***** to sand at the beginning but seems once you sand thru the top "crust" it sands easier. I like it and it's tough stuff.
It and other fillers like it Metal-2-Metal (Evercoat) use a aluminum powder instead of talc as the fill agent. They tend to be stronger than regular filler and won't absorb water like a talc based filler. The biggest downside is they are hard as a rock when they cure so they are a ***** to sand.
My shoebox chop was done in all-metal over a decade ago and then put in DP-90 without ever being painted. Not a bubble or a blemish to be found. Doubt if plastic would have stood up that well.
That All-metal is the **** !! #1 its water proof. #2 its hard #3 its strong It roughes well (cheese grated) It sands well if you understand what's happening and think like the all metal instead of Rage. The top resin layer will clog your paper, tough to feather before its hard, and its hard its a ***** to sand. SOOOO use your old paper to cut the resin up and then shape sand or long board it after it sets but before its hours old. After that its plenty hard and feathers well KIND OF LIKE METAL. It spreads really nice and smooth, but you can add some resin and really slick it out for a skim coat. It's kind of dirty in the sanding process.
Thanks guys. I am considering it in a few areas. After you apply it how long before you can sand it and what grit paper would recommend after the initial cheesegrating?
Several mins Till cheese grated maybe ten more then 36 work your way down to150. It has a liquid hardner that only so very slightly changes the color (BS you can't tell ) You have to really mix it well. After you are certain you have mixed it enough, mix it some more.
I have used All Metal and Metal to metal, they both ****. If the metal is that thin, replace it. The stuff I have done is still holding up however.
Can you power coat over All Metal, will it take the heat? I have some bumpers that are really bad, too much to grind to plate.
Hey, If you've ever wondered what plastic filler was like in the 40s & 50s use this **** Hard to sand, check, clogs paper, check, long time before your mix kicks off, or too fast a kick= a ***** to work with, check,check Save your money for patch panels, and go with any medium priced plastic filler sold today. Looking to any plastic filler to impart strength to a sheetmetal panel is a sure route to repair/paint problems. " Life ain't no Disney movie "
It's good for hiding iffy spots that are hard to fabricate. For overall use? No way. It's butcher bondo in my book but good for regular patch jobs where people don't want to pay for a real repair.It's no cure all but better than fibergl*** which does not bond to metal very well in the long run.
Dale ,I have been using all-metal for over 25 years.I really like the stuff if used correctly.That said, it does have its quirks. It really needs to be mixed well.likes alittle more hardener,than not enough(actually hardens quicker with less)It has a short shelf life, so I buy in quarts.I never cheese grate it.I cut it first with36 grit on an 8" D.A.,Then straight to 80 grit hand board.I'll then clean it up with180.To avoid paper clog , I save the all- metal dust.and spread the powder on the cured surface.It truly is water proof, as I have made test panels that have set outside {bare metal)with a skim coat on, for over two years.went back with a heat gun,Shiny metal under neath.It does not take High heat as in powder coating.But holds up well on hoods and such.If I were to need filler for powder coating I would use either JB weld or Lab Metal.I have tried using 36 grit file board paper ,and it ****s. it really likes 80 grit file board. Hope this helps.BTW, car is looking so Good!
I really like the stuff also. I have 20 year old repairs that have held up fine. I use it to seal up weld seams where I have put in patch panels or anywhere that the back side will see moisture. I put a coat on only the weld seam, grind it flush with 36 and put bondo right over the top of it. This stuff is really hard to sand as others have said and I would avoid using it unless you could top coat it with something easier to sand.
Be very careful powder coating over all metal. There is a very good chance it will fail. It depends on a whole bunch of factors, heat of oven, ramp up and cool down times, thickness of metal being coated, etc. There are fillers designed specifically for powder coating all metal or any comparable polyester based metal filler are not. It may work 20 times and fail on 21 or it could fail the first time out but if it was me the chance that it could fail would be enough to deter considering the cost involved in powder coating.
Sounds like some here think it's meant to replace metal. It's not that at all. The hook is that it blends into bare steel better than plain ol poly filler. It also has excellent adhesion qualities and lasts for decades without failure. Once you get your rythm down as to when to sand and block it you can do some amazing final finishing on sheet metal. It still pinholes if you whip it to hard with too much hardener and try to run it too thick. You can shape it with a vixen file like lead in some instances. Not everything needs it or deserves it, and it's pricey. And if you don't cover up or rig up a vac system you'll look like friggen martian from the sanding dust.
I found from experience that like rod 1 said it has a short shelf life ,so if you want to save a half empty can of it before you put the lid on the can take thin plastic sheet ,push it down to the material in the can to seal it away from the all metal to keep it from drying out. I also use this method for other paint related materials that will sit on the shelf foe any length of time. It does work!
We use all metal in the body shop for dressing welds after grinding. It dosent sag. I have been paid to cave and pave from time to time. When I do that I use all metal. I like the stuff for thin coats. We also have had ok luck with powder coating it. (used very thin to fill in grind marks and pitting) Just wear a dust mask when sanding it... Good Luck
Thanks for all the useful information. If I use it I plan to use it sparingly in a few places. Not sure yet. Just seeking information on it. For the most part if seems like a pretty good product if used right from what I gather from all your input. Cheers.
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