OK, so i bought a 390 from a guy with a C6 trans already attached to it. He told me it came from a 68 Galaxie and since he was parting out the car as well i had no real reason at that point to think otherwise. When i got it home i cleaned it up and ran a numbers check, only to find out that the block was actually dated 1964, so could be from a 64/65 car. Ok no problem i can live with that! I have now installed the engine. Wired it up and turned the key and there is an awful grinding noise coming from the starter. I can see the engine is turning over but i'm pretty sure this noise isn't right and its not cranking as fast as it should. It seems like the gear is slipping. I've been reading various posts on this forum and others and have now learned that there are 2 differnet types of flywheel, 153t (pre 64) and 184t (65 on), and the new style C6 starter wont mesh with the 153t flywheel etc etc. Since the engine is now sitting in the car, counting the teeth on my flywheel isn't going to be an easy task, but ***uming that i might have the old flywheel in there, is there a bendix drive gear conversion available that converts the newer style C6 starter so it will mesh with the old style flywheel? Also, if it turns out my flywheel is correct then what on earth could the grinding noise be?
I dont think they make a kit to change to bendix.You might be better off just buying a mached starter and flywheel.Instead of messing with what you got.I no its a pain in the *** but after you try and find the pecies to fix what you got it would just be faster and easier to drop the trans and replace the flywheel and the starter with new ones.Also the converter could be broken but that usely makes noise after it is running.
Crawl under it and yank the starter, it may just be a bum drive or the starter needs a rebuild. Look at the flywheel while you're there. Bob
You can count the teeth. Remove the tin cover and make a mark. Put a ratchet on the crank center bolt up front. Start turning and counting till your mark comes back around. The Wizzard
If its a 64 it may have had a cruiso and a different flexplate...my 65 Gal had a 390 and a cruiso and I changed it to a c-6...had to change the flexplate to a 66-70 galaxie with a c-6 application flexplate.The starters were the same.However some 64 390s with cruisos have different type starters and they connot be interchanged.Suggest you use a flexplate and starter from a 66-70 390 with a c-6.the easiest and cheapest fix.
okay I know this is redundant but with ford stuff you never know, so will any year flex plate or fly wheel work on any year FE? Ford stuff is not known for its interchangability so I was just curious? also are FE's interchangeable the way a SBC is? like intakes, heads, motor mounts, ect? thanks
No. There were a number of different flywheel configurations. The biggest differences were the 410's and 428's (and FT truck motors, but we don't need to make this any more confusing) were externally balanced, were as every other FE (332, 352, 390, 406, 427, etc) were internally balanced. Hence, only 410 and 428 flywheels can be used on 410's and 428's. And, as stated above, Ford changed the tooth count and used different flex plates depending on the transmission used.
Yes there is. Go to www.marcsone.com and order bendix part number 8800. Cost about 20 bucks. Put it on your new starter and it will mesh with the gears on the flywheel. ITs actually a Ford tractor part but over at the FE forum some guys found out that this is the ticket when converting to the newer front mesh starters and gets away from the old back mesh starters. Just to add a note... I did this exact same thing on my 64 Galaxie. It had a late model engine/starter with the old cruisomatic trans and flywheel. Same grinding noise you describe. I put this bendix on my starter and its quiet as a purring kitten.
Ok just to throw a curve ball in there, just counted the flywheel teeth and came back with 168, checked it 3 times and marked out in groups of 10 with dabs of white paint, definitely 168 !!!
Are there any other ring gears in the 160 - 170 range used on an FE? ***uming I may have miscounted slightly Beginning to think this may have been butchered on there
OK, did it properly this time with some help. I cleaned off all the old white paint and dirt and started again with someone else slowly cranking the engine from the front bolt, marking every 10 teeth with a flouro marker then going back and counting it all up, and i now count 152 So, old flywheel it is then Never mind, looks like 56don may have the answer and i will contact these guys for a replacement bendix drive. Are they easy enough to fit?
Does your starter fit smoothly into the mounting hole? One version of the Ford starter has a different size register and will not bolt up flush. Otherwise it sounds like what 56don suggests.
Yeah all fits nice and snug. I've contacted Marc's one but have yet to receive a reply, I hope they are able to ship this little piece to the UK! 56don, do you by any chance know the Ford part number for he tractor bendix, I have a guy local to me that might have one in stock as we have a big ford tractor plant here
No, sorry, I don't know for certain what the part was manufactured for,I gleaned the information from the FE enthusiasts web site.(http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/). But here is more info on Marcs One in case they fail to respond by their web site: Marcs One 2502 South 15th Avenue Phoenix Az 85007 Tel (602) 340-9246
i've swapped FE parts back and forth between several model year engines and seldom ran into an unsurmountable problem. IMHO they're probably EASIER to swap parts on than the SBC, except for weight.... everything ON an FE weighs a hundred pounds, it seems....
cheers Don! does the part look anything like this by any chance? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STARTER-B...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=8157266608840690258
Well, yes, that looks like it, but that is a typical Bendix drive photo. They pretty much all look like that for the front engagement type of drive. I wouldn't venture a guess as to if it will fit your starter shaft or have the proper gear teeth. I can't tell you the number of teeth or the diameter of the gear because I sold the car.
I got through to Marc's One, they have the part in stock and are supposed to be emailing me a price for shipping, to be honest she didn't sound overly keen and I have yet to receive any email since speaking to her. Theres quite a hefty time difference between london and arizona so perhaps it will come later today...
FE's are goofy when changing heads and stuff. There are low riser, medium riser, and high riser heads. Each head has a special type of intake it takes. You'll most likely deal with low riser stuff since mediums were used only on 427 engines I believe. High riser heads were mainly for race applications. Other than that they will change everything over.
25 bucks for the part and 40 for delivery! If it gets the damn thing running then it will be worth it
More Woes!! the bendix part is now on the starter and i've hooked it all back up again. Turned the key and the damn thing still wont turn over properly. Now it seems like the gearing is too tight and the starter motor is struggling to sping the flex plate. Engine turns over fine by hand, but when i turn the key it just sounds wrong again, also it's heating up the battery wires to the point of smoke coming from the solenoid!! What now guys, is my starter shot
Be sure you have god ground and clean and god conection of the wires to the solenoid . Yes very god check it one more time .Often the problem when Ford starters don spin fast enough and the wire get hot Also check the bushings in the starter
put a ground wire as close to the starter as possible and make sure you're getting a good ch***is ground....clean all your connections and make sure your cables don't have corrosion up into the casings. seldom had an FE that wouldn't spin with a hot battery. good luck and hope you get this quibble worked out soon.
Cheers fellas. The connections to the solenoid were considerably corroded so have cleaned them up and all the ground connections too, and hey presto she turns over much better and no smoking wires! I think my battery may be a bit dull too as after a number of turns it slowed down a bit and started to sound a bit noisy again, but at first it sounded great. Looks like a new battery is on the cards!
Well having made progress i have now hit another problem. Today i began to re ***emble the bodywork around the front end, front panel and inner fenders went on and the necessary electrics were bolted back into place. I thought i'de have a cheeky start of the car and something strange happenned. It fired up as before no problem, but when i switched the key off the engine continued to run. At first i thought it may be pre ignition but after a few seconds I noticed the idle speed increasing so i ran round the front of the car and pulled off the battery wire, which stopped it dead. I then went back to the key and turned the ignition on just "one click" to see if i still had power to the coil and before i knew what was happening the engine was running again. It seems that the starter motor is activating as soon as the coil comes on and not when the key is fully turned. I'm sure this must be a simple electrical issue, probably related to something i've just done as previously it ran fine before the voltage regulator and solenoid were screwed back into place. Any ideas ??
The Jalopy Journal
