I know there are no pros, to doing such a thing, but what can one expect when not running an oil filter?? I know back in the day it was optional but obviously it was a "good idea" to eventually make it standard.
Pros: -No pesky filter to clutter up the car or to change. -The joy of performing frequent oil changes -The presence of "Old-Timey" sludge in the lifter valley -A healthy presence of 'particulate' in the oil to help boost oil pressure Cons: (all of the above plus...) -Longer engine life -Easier clean up at rebuild time -And if you have to ask...
yeah it was good enough to become standard but from then till now oiling systems and pressurizing has changed quite a bit. i think the filter on a flathead filters something like 10 percent of the oil if that? just my 2 cents
If your not make the leap to a full pressure oiling system on a flattie, where you tap the block, etc., then your not running a true oil filter system anyway The stock cannister doesn't do much, as already mentioned. My flathead rebuilder put over 150,000 miles on his 59 AB motor- with no filter system. He changed the oil every 2,000 miles. jay
I'm running an oil filter on one flathead, but not on the second one that I have. I think that the oil is going to have to be changed every one to two thousand miles regardless, filter or no. I tried a MCF full flow system but it didn't make pressure right away on startup so I took it back off and went with the stock setup. Some ideas sound good but don't always work right. pigpen
IMHO, unless you're just going for looks, the original by-p*** oil filter isn't worth the effort or expense (one just went for $150 on eBay). As others have indicated, using good oil and changing it every 2000 miles or so is more effective.
All of the oil gets filtered in the stock setup, just not in one p***. It is far better than having no filter IMO. It certainly is easy enough to test the difference. Run 3000 miles with the filter, change the oil and run another 3000 without and tell me that you cant SEE the difference.
Another factoid: since the stock filter doesn't have to be able to p*** the whole main gallery volume at once, it is a much finer mesh than a full-flow and also does not byp*** any of the oil reaching it like a full flow. It removes particles that a full-flow would miss, in other words. Many really expensive engines like heavy equipment stuff run both a full flow and a fine byp*** filter--certainly something that might be interesting to try on a flathead. There have been kits sold in recent years to adapt such systems to Chevy V8's even. Equally important, IMHO, to killing off sludge and internal corrosion is maintaining engine and oil temp high enough to evaporate the combustion and atmospheric water and good ventilation. Keep that filter--its only downside is that it is in your way during retorquing, and if you can't stand that, put it on the firewall!
One area not talked about yet is the PCV system setup. One of the reasons these engines get so sludgy is the fact there is not enough movement of air internally to disperse any containiments and moisture. After installing a PCV in my un filtered flatty, I couldn't believe the difference in the look of the oil after 500 miles. It actually stays as clean as it has just been changed. Of course it isn't going to filter any particles but it sure makes a 100% improvement in taking care of the sludge. I change mine every 1000 miles anyway.
Greger Stroem ( RIP ) who rebuildt / "Hoped-Up" my 59AB said that I could skip the "oil-filter" if I changed Oil often enough. To narrow this down : He asked if I would find it hard to finance an oil-change "now&then" compared to the money I had/have invested in my stoopid Hot-Rod engine !. I have nothing against Oil-filters , but I sure got his point . BTW : A NICE Filcoolator was sold at ( close to ) $500 on Ebay recently ...... But then again ... Very few used those in the early days , and as far as I know , they ain`t an impowment over stock Ford filters ( Part from the "cooling"-bit ) Oops, almost forgot : .. A full-flow will save you guys $$$$ in Oìl-changes . BTW ... Greger built & raced everything from 4-bangers to Ardun-flatheads from 1937 to 1949 ....
Speaking of pcv filters, I've seen flatheads with breathers mounted on the oil pan (near the rail). Does that really do anything?
That's really a vent, not really the same as a ventilation system drawing air through the system. It relieves pressure from m***ive blow-by, I would guess, probably from primitive piston rings on primitive forged pistons not coping well with long strokes and raised RPM. A really big need in flathead world: Modern pistons and rings!
Now you have me curious. I also have a MCF full flow setup ready to bolt in on my newest flathead. When you say, ".. it didn't make pressure right away on startup .. "; how long was the delay? My other flathead - stock pump - hesitated for a couple of seconds, before showing pressure on the gauge. (mechanical) Is it possible the MCF setup "drains back??"
I have no personal experience with this thing, and most likely won't since I don't like moving most of the oil system outboard... I have heard a couple of strange things from other boards, without explanation: Two people reported that the thing would not build pressure when set up with the filter can pre-filled, but started up fine when tried with an empty filter! I think best way is the standard conversion that taps into the gallery at the back of the block--Ford did this exact conversion on wartime full-flow filter engines. They also used a huge filter with NO byp***, as far as I can tell, something that could likely be accomplished with HD (not regular) Chevy parts... Remember, Ford copied its oiling system almost directly from the SBC's clever design when it designed the flathead. They just deleted the extra galleries for the hydraulic lifters.
Bruce, I have also had some misgivings about doing (using) an external oil system. But this MCF filter setup came as part of a swap deal. It's new, and three of the flatheaders around here use them. So far without any problems. So I figured; what the hey, let's try it out. It also came with an oil cooler which I thought couldn't hurt in the heat department. ALL the lines from the pan outlet to the filter, on to the cooler and back to the engine are 1/2" SS braid. I have to ***ume we're talking INITIAL startup. This reminds me of a conversation we had about pre-oiling a new engine. I had indicated that I was given the job of using a hand squirt oil can and filling the engine with oil through the oil pressure sender hole. (first flathead rebuild I was involved with!) A while back someone showed a "pre-oil" setup using a filter housing with an air stem to "push" the oil in. (talked of a sight gl*** to make sure oil didn't run out, and air get pumped in) My plan is to prefill the filter, a temp hose to byp*** the filter housing, then push oil through the line from the engine, through the cooler and backwards into the engine. (thru the pump) As well as introducing oil at the back of the engine. Once the required amount of oil is in the engine, re-install the filter and before the heads are bolted on, spin the engine with the starter with an oil pressure gauge screwed into the back of the block ... and wait to see if we have pressure! If not then ... *** So THAT'S where the design comes from!
I'm using a full flow system from a sidevalve guru in Australia by the name of Mike Davidson. He built my motor and supplied numerous parts including my fuel injection set up.His company is called Flatattack Racing Products (no relation ) and his is a "beehive" style that bolts to the firewall and actually has the canister inside. You can see pics at www.flatattackracing.com and prices. He sells to the USA via Reds Headers in CA
Just curious if anyone off the top of their head knew what the stock oil flow rate was. We've all heard the 10% byp*** figure, but I would not be surprised if it is more. Just watch what happens when you accidentally don't properly seat the gasket for the oil filter canister ! Just another 'yes' vote for the filter. It's insurance against particles circulating through the system. Would you rather have something eventually filtered out or never filtered out. Also, with new lines the filter system should be trouble-free for decades, so it's not like you are eliminating a PITA. No, it's not optimum- but it's not a bad system either. My local NAPA even stocks a #1006 'NAPA Gold' filter for the flatty. Probably made by Hastings, which are also fairly easy to find. If my only goal was to run 1/4 mile at a time and I planned for frequent tear-downs, then I probably would ditch the filter. Right now I can't afford to get that deep into flatties, but that 8ba block can't just sit in my garage forever... Cheers, Offenhoser aka 'FlatIron' on the flathead forum
FlatIron, I have often wondered the same thing. Non of the service manuals that I have, make any reference to "oil flow rate" through the filter. The one thing I have noticed when pulling the odd flathead apart; is that the oil and the filter - in the cannister - are CLEAN! Yet the engine has so much sludge inside that you have to conclude that NO oil had been p***ing through the filter AT ALL! Several times I have tried to blow through the line from the engine to the filter housing and IT'S TOTALLY BLOCKED! This is the line that has the restrictor in it, so time and infrequent oil changes have blocked the restrictor and caused the whole filter setup to become inoperative. If anyone plans to run the stock filter setup, MAKE SURE YOU USE THE FORD HOSE - that has the correct restrictor - from the back of the block to the filter housing. There have been several flathead fans who have replaced this hose with an unrestricted one; and wondered why they don't have any oil pressure!!
Air cooled VW's never had a factory installed oil filter in their 60 year, 22 million production run. Byp*** filters are ok. If you choose not to run one, put a strong magnet(avalible at any hardware store) on the outside of the pan next to the drain plug. just before you dump the oil, pull the magnet, and anything caught by it will get flushed out.
I know this opens up a can of worms, but I use straight 50 wt in Summer and 40 wt in Winter. Always a debate as to what wt oil to run in the flatty- personally I don't care for multi-vis in this engine. In my engine, using 50 wt allows me to open up the restriction into the filter and still maintain excellent oil pressure. Also gets junk into the filter and there is less sludge in the sump. Works for me, but I can't guarantee it for everybody. Also must say that this was done on a fresh set of cam bushings, so that could also make a big difference if they are quite worn.
It was several seconds, on every start, especially after sitting overnight, long enough to make me worry about bearing damage. I do think it was draining back or somehow loosing the oil in the filter which had to be replaced on startup, hense the delay in oil pressure reading. Additionally, I didn't notice that the setup kept the oil that much cleaner. The engine built up quite a bit of sludge (due to bad rings) very quickly and the particulate wasn't filtered out. pigpen
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