Hi Folks, Doing some work on the brakes on the Kurtis Tommy Lee Special and would like to know what they really are. The drums measure 12" in diameter and have a 2" wide contact surface. What say the experts?
Thanks for the quick response! Awesome...answered my next question. What are the advantages to the Lincoln brake upgrade over this setup? I seem to recall the Lincoln setup had 12" X 2" drums as well...
Lincoln brakes are self energizing. They are Bendix style brakes...basically the same as any modern drum brake. Clark
Being as it's a weekend I won't get a response from a vendor but... Is there a bolt-on upgrade to the Lincoln brakes available for this application? I see at least 3 sites that offer Lincoln brakes but the amount of information provided is somewhat lacking so it's a little difficult to tell what we need. Sorry for the basic questions. Our knowledge of the "old" stuff is somewhat limited...
Arn't those Lockheed brakes. The first type of juice brake Ford used. The drums are swedged to the hub. They stop alright. Still using them on my car.
What are you trying to accomplish? If the car will not be used hard those will be fine. If you want "state of the art" drum brakes as of 1960, that would be Chrysler Centerplane brakes with Buick finned aluminum drums. If you want modern stopping power, disc brakes. I don't see the point of using Lincoln brakes.
I just re read the question, if it is the original Kurtis built Tommy Lee special you should leave it alone including the brakes.
Thanks for the input. The car participated in the Colorado Grande last year and the owner felt the brakes were not up to the task. Plan "A" is to make what's there work better. Plan "B" is to upgrade. I'm just doing some preparation for plan "B" There is only one Kurtis Tommy Lee Special so yes, this is that car. I presume you can tell me with 100% certainty that the brakes currently on the car are the original brakes, or if they're not, what they should be? This is a one-off custom built car and it has been restored. No one knows what brakes the car was built with and 99.99% of the people who see the car will not bother to look at the brakes, let alone think about whether they may be correct. We are looking at the possibility of disc brakes as well. The car is capable of doing 100mph+. The owner wants it to stop safely from whatever speed it's capable of doing. He doesn't much care if the brakes are original on this particular car. Safety is paramount.
Getting them set up is the challenge and is what we will work at with plan "A". There is a point where economics and personal safety take priority. It's hard to justify spending a bunch of time trying to get old school brakes working when better, more efficient and less complicated setups are available for as cheap as they are.
Set the stock brakes back for restoration purposes and upgrade to the Lincoln Bendix brakes offered by Bob Wilson or his compe***ors, the Bolling Brothers who sell them under the MT Car Products name. You can use the Lincoln brakes with 1.75" shoes and the original Ford hubs and drums. You can use the Lincoln brakes with 2.00" shoes and Lincoln drums. Original 40-42 style Ford hubs will work but lug bolts are problematic. Bolling Brothers/MT Car offer new hubs with screw in lug bolts. The paint wear on your drums does not look right. Are you running early Ford wire wheels (28-35) without support rings? Something you might want to double check.
Thanks for the info. Wheels are full steel wheels. Not sure of an original application. The paint preparation on the drums is a little suspect. We have paint peeling off on all 4 corners...
Like every other aspect of car components, brakes have improved significantly since the 40's when those on the car were made. Lots of us, including me, run the early Ford brakes on the street and love them, but since you are talking about racing the car that may make you want to go another direction. If the owner is expecting those to ever stop and not fade like modern discs, he is going to be disappointed. Drum brakes are simply not discs in that regard. But it might also be sacreligious to change that particular car because of it's historical significance. That is a call you and the owner has to weigh. Don
This is a conversation that has been had. Yes, the car is a historically significant car. It is, however, not significant when compared to cars like the Ferrari 250GTO or a Fiat Supersonic or an original 427 Cobra. By that I mean if we were to upgrade brakes on an original 427 Cobra, we'd be strung up. However, we know exactly what brakes a 427 Cobra should have on it. That is unknown on this car. There are no records of what brakes this car came with. Having been built in 1937, one might speculate it actually came with mechanical brakes. Considering this, we feel it's acceptable to run some brakes that are going to keep the car (and its occupants) safe, provided they will fit under the original wheels. Something that necessitates going to a different wheel will not be considered.
Actually I think this car is more significant than a Ferrari or cobra...how many cobras were built? The Lincoln brakes are your best bet. What master cylinder is on the car and it's location? Clark
In terms of value the Cobras or Ferraris are far more significant. To a specific segment of enthusiasts, the Tommy Lee may be held in higher esteem, no doubt. The car has a floor-mount master cylinder- currently 1". We will be dropping that to 7/8" to get a little more "torque" out of it.
Is the master too low and in need of a residual valve? If your brakes get better with a second pump you may need residual valve Clark
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