I've lived a sheltered hot rod life... all I have experience is with pre 34 and 57 Fords... Recently just purchased a 41 Merc long door coupe father & son project... Dad whats skirts... and I'm fine with that if it sets low... So, I need some suggestions based on the following; I will be running banjo rear and early ford trans... I will not split front wish bones... I has a fresh built 53 Merc motor that shounds great... but, I have a 312 with 18K setting around and I'm undecided on motor which shouldn't change much... I ***ume the first step an after market rear spring with reverse spring eyes... 15" rims/tires would also help... I really dread the idea of raising the center of the rear cross member since the body was just re-mounted on the frame... Keep in mind my Dad is 79 so I'm not looking for slammed just low enough to wear skirts and not look bad... After I get feed back on which mods work and how low it will go... I would like the front level or 1-2" lower than the back ( plan on level, cause the 312 option is heavier and will lower it some)... Are the later 48 style wishbone the same length as the 41 and will they lower the front? or, am I just better off using a deeper dropped axle? I don't have the car home yet and wonder if I'll have clearance issues with the 312 front sump pan and tie rods when its lowered... This is the look I'm after... Thanks in advance for your input, Thom
Keep the Flathead.Keep the 16" rims.Never lower the front more than the rear when using skirts.Never.
Why remove a fresh good running flathead? If dad is 79 let him enjoy the car as is. Drop it as far as you can as is and add skirts. The skirts alone will make it look lower. Switch to chromed reversed 15" wheels. 14" if ya want lower. Our 41 Ford is not low and has skirts. Every car on the road does not have to drag bottom. Just have fun with the flathead right now. Sorry this is not what you want to read.
I will keep the 16" if I can get the back down... I really need to know how many inches the spring will drop it without extended shackles... and any other tricks that come from experience... and not being a custom guy, I'm not used to level but that makes sense and less of an issue up front... Thanks for the input
Reverse eyes on the spring, remove a few of the leafs from the spring pack, longer shackles, bags of cement in the trunk are ways to get it lower. Would have to fab motor mounts, find a truck or t-bird rear sump pan and oil pick up, and get an adapter to mount the y-block. I think you need to work on the cross member too. Sounds like a cool cruiser.
Longer shackles & bags of cement are not in the game plan... if the Merc which has a four inch longer wheel base than Ford requires anything more than the adaptor which I have it will remain flathead powered... If I modify the rear cross-member it would be more work but wouldn't it handle better?
Check Posey-maybe he has a spring that will take a couple inches out of it without compromising ride & handling.
I was hoping some had used a Posey spring that could offer some results... I had the eyes reversed, rearched, and removed leafs on my 33 back in the 70's but plan to take advantage of the aftermarket spring this time around... Need feedback on ride, height, and any experience or suggestions
I was not talking about level.Get some 6.00" or 6.50" whitewalls for the 16" rims.6.00" prefered.Keep the front at stock height.Lower the back as much as you can without radical ch***is mods.Add skirts and you are done.You later can bring down the front just a little bit if you are not happy with the look but always keep it higher please.This is a Ford,but it's the perfect example of what I would do,if your car would be mine.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=600903 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701300
When I first got my 47,it had a posey front spring,and 2" longer shackels in the rear. It did not look right,so I installed a Posey rear spring,with 1 1/2" longer shackels. Now it looks just right,with or without the skirts. I would not go any lower.as the pipes just barely clear on driveways,and drag slightly getting off the hoist. Check old photos,and you will see that lower in the back,with skirts was the norm,in early 50's.
I had a friend who bought a new Posies spring to drop the rear of his '39 sedan. The original spring had settled over the years and the new Posies spring (reversed eye) put it right back where it was previously. I'd reverse the main leaf on the stock spring, loose a couple leaves, and use longer shackles. 3" should be well within reach with these mods. What size wheels are on it now? Those fronts sure look smaller than 16". Maybe it's just the tire..... Either way, I'd drop the rear and put a taller front tire on it before I worried with blowing it apart for an engine swap. That's a pretty Merc. Keep us posted. JH
I've got reversed eyes, leaves removed and 4 in shackles on my 46 in the rear. I'm still running a flathead and banjo rear. The front is lowered 1 in with shackles. The red 46 coupe above was the inspiration for mine. Matt
I guess you are keeping the flatty. I don't think that the Y block uses the same motor mounts as the flathead. De-arched springs, longer shackles and reversed eyes have been the game plan for as long as I can remember. Bags of cement or extra batteries got used as well but it was kind of a low rent way to do it. On the front dropped axle, and same treatment to the spring as the rear.
This is how Magoozi replied when I asked a similar question http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=698329&page=7 His response is #102. I thought that '41 Fords use the same frame as Mercs, worth checking.
I understand I didn't provide any useful info regarding lowering tech like you asked for.I just was worried a nice car could get "ruined" when I heard about the motor and wheel change etc.These cars don't need much to look right.Just build it like the one on the example pic you posted BUT with correct stance and taller tires.Or like Lynn Williams '41 built by the Kennedy Brothers except for the chop.Just trying to save a beautiful car.
I really appreciate your input... I bought the car several months ago and I don't have a place to put it... the previous owner bought it as a project car in 78 and finished the mechanical before he pasted... this son mounted the body back on and fired it up for us... I working on buying a garage close to the house (waiting an appraisal to finish the transaction) and can't wait to take a good look at it... It is a more ambitious project han I need right now since I'm trying to finish the 27 and the Chopped Ranchero is still on the rotissery... but, my Dad's been wanting one for years and affordable nice bodies don't become available often in Ohio... I'm hoping the Merc still has its stock 5" wide 16" which I'll seal the best pair for the roadsters and put 4.5" on the front... I have spare 42 Lincoln 15" that I was referring to using in the rear to help lower it and thought with the skirts it wouldn't be to noticeable??? You guys are going to give me grief but I confess that I don't like to shift often... Zypher gears and more horespower turns the 3 speed into a semi automatic... 2nd is good for anything from a rolling stop to 50 mph... I had a flathead in a 49 Merc and you needed to use the gears... and my Dad isn't getting any more agile and hasn't driven a stick in decades... I won't be changing anything if it works for him and/or it isn't a known working parts that I already have... My biggest issue is handling... thats why I keep going back to shackles verses modified rear cross-member... I have two three-point suspension cars and I know they work well when they don't have the extra (fat) body but... I don't need create work if it isn't needed - I tend to think to much into it... The front doesn't concern me but I'm still curious if the later wishbone is a better geometry and if the length is the same... from what I've read: Ford & Merc are the same with the Merc having the radius ball mount 4" inches forward on the frame and everything cowl back is the same as Ford The only thing missing on the the Merc is the front bumper and braces so if you know anyone with on that they are willing to part with - PM me Thanks again for you comments...
I'm actually to the point of ordering springs... I've looked at the other posts but I thought I'd bump it up in hopes of getting actual info on Posies reversed lowering claims to actual results
'41-'48 fords & mercs all have same length wishbones . 41's are straight, & '42-'48 have the dog leg. changing wishbones won't lower it. also, '41 ford [ & probably merc] use the narrow '40 axle, so '42-'48 wishbone won't fit without modification. if you add a panhard bar to the rear, you might be o.k. with long shackles.
I appreciate the info on the 41 since I didn't realize the specs were differant than th 41-48... I believe I would flatten the rear crossmember before I would go the long shackle route... Still would like to hear of others experience with Posies springs
I don't have any experience with Posies, but I would check with St. Louis Spring Co. too. Give them your specs they will make anything you need.
Yes, another vote for St. Louis Spring. I got 4" dropped springs for a '51 Merc from them. telephone: 314-533-2132 email: stlouisspring@gmail.com
I called Posies today... And was informed that numerous variables appear on 41 Fords & Mercs... Both 40 & 42-48 width front and rear ends... They were very up front that change could be 3" to barely noticeable... I did locate a 48 wishbone so if I go the dropped axle I won't have to worry about heating & bending the arms
To exStreamliner: My 40 Ford 2dr has a 4" Super Bell beam, 5.50x15 piecrusts on 5 on 5 1/2 gennie steelies, 5" wide, 327 with stock three on the tree, banjo with 2" shackle extensions by me, 7.00x15 piecrusts that clear fenders, and it is low enough for Texas roads. Grill chin in about 5" off ground and rear tires fill fender nicely. Any lower rear might cause frame to hit rearend. Sits really nice. Good luck.
Ordered the springs today and I'll post results... Posies when over every thing and had me reverify my measurements... He was surprised that it had 48 springs & 40 axles... He recommended 40 spring in the rear with longer shackles because the existing shackle was almost vertical... Not sure if I'm going consider a dropped axle until I see what the springs do... I'm inclined to modify the rear crossmember if it doesn't drop it enough
FYI for anyone with a 41 - the post that cautioned me on the 40 axles was correct in my case however I'm being told that it depends on early or late production... The rear spring was replaced with a 40 even though the one that was removed was wider... The front axle was a 40 but the 40 spring wouldn't spread enough... Posies ended up replacing the front spring with one that was inbetween a 40 & 48... I still don't know how much it lowered the car since it doesn't have fenders to reference.... We are going to mock the up tomorrow... Lots pieces that reminds me of a jigsaw puzzle... The probable realized that when they changed everything the following yesr
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