I'm hoping someone will help me figure out what the heck is going on with my 56 pickup. Has a typical 350 chev/700R4. Runs great. Just got it on the road this year and I keep having starter issues. After driving the truck for a long enough time to get warmed up or overly warm as it's been a warm summer... it won't start, doesn't click, Here's what I've done to eliminate the problem so far. I might add I have a kill swictch below the floor wrapped in part of an old inner tube to protect it from water and shorting out. I started out with a heat shield, that worked for sometime, until I drove an extended road trip about 100 miles and it started all over again. I restarted the truck by shorting across the solenoid and it starts up and away I go. Often after doing this, it starts on the keyed switch like it's supposed to... So after the road trip, I decided I needed the best and bought a power master mini starter and it sure turns it over quick, when it works... again I'm still having the same problem, clicks sometimes, not always and short across the solenoid and starts right up. I'm about to remove my half assed attempt at making it waterproof and check all connections again... anyother ideas?
If you only went by that statement, it sounds exactly like a cooked solenoid. But I don't know if your new mini has the solenoid as close to the exhaust as the stock one was. Is the pipe real close to the solenoid?
I fought the exact same problem for a year. I finally fixed the problem (which we all thought was starter motor heat soak) by moving the battery ground cable from a welded stud on the frame to the the tail shaft housing on the trans. I made heat shields bought a solenoid and all the usual stuff. Finally I reluctantly moved the ground to the trans case and the problem went away. I thought that I was so smart welding the stud to the frame to eliminate any chance of oxidation. My battery was under the seat of a P/U so it was an easy fix. Of course it always happened at the registration tent when pulling into the run while everyone is watching. It started instantly when cool.
This is how I fixed mine. I put a little bosch relay on the firewall, works great. The purple solenoid wire to/from the neutral safety switch on the shifter was causing too much resistance in the circuit, the connection at the starter was only showing 7 volts instead of 12 when it was acting up.
I'm not as much of genius as all of you guys seem to be, sorry! As for the Ford Solenoid, I'd need to figure out how to wire it, must be simple? F&J asks if the exhaust is close to the mini, yes it is. According to Powermasters web site, heat isn't supposed to be a problem... but that is their study, not mine, right? So I kinda agree with you about the heat. tommy mentions moving the ground, mine is on the block where the engine trans bolts together, so I can do that. By the way I run double 00 battery cables, experience has taught me this.
We're not geniuses....at least I'm not. It took me ten years to figure out I needed that relay! I'd try the little relay before messing with a Ford solenoid. Less work, less cost, easier fix.
I used Ford solenoids on my Chevy stock cars, I never had a hot-start problem. Google up some images or you might find a thread on here on how to do it. Definitely a lot easier on a stock car with a toggle switch and starter button though. Bob
Squirrel's point about excessive resistance in the line is what I would focus on. The hotter the starter, the more current needed for even things like solenoids. If you have a neutral safety switch you could try bypassing when the issue shows up and see if it cranks. If so, the neutral safety might be going bad. This is also the case of the ignition switch when in start position, excessive resistance. Wiring issues, such as wire to terminal crimps being suspect. Your solenoid and starter seem to be fine when you bypass the wiring, so focus in on the wiring. You may want to run 14 gauge wire from ignition start to neutral safety, and then neutral safety to solenoid to reduce the resistance of the wire. Last thing is to make sure your battery ground attaches to the engine block as close to the starter as possible. Good luck
It'll be a day or two before I can get back to this problem. I plan to try d2 willys idea as that sounds like something I can do. I do have a neutral safety switch in this (unlike many others I've built.... )). I haven't any experience with relays, that maybe next, never to old to learn. Thanks guys, I will post when I try these fixes, I will check back for others as computer time is easier to get than getting back out to the garage. Thanks again everyone!
Sounds like a junk solenoid to me. As far as resistance to the S terminal just check to see if you have a solid 12v at the solenoid S terminal when it will not start, if not there isnt much to the circuit except the ignition switch and the wire from the switch to the solenoid. Normally this wire is a straight shot and doesnt go anywhere else and is 10G. Using a relay or ford solenoid will not help if the actual starter solenoid is NG, you are still using it in the circuit either way. ** forgot the neutral safety switch, wire from the ignition switch will go through the NS switch and then to the S terminal..so if there is not 12v at the solenoid it could be a worn ignition switch (common), worn NS switch (not so common) or the wire itself has an issue **
i had same problem with a 350 in my a roadster my fix was earth lead from battery to the bottom bolt on startermoter and remote starter button under the dash and 10 amp wire direct to starter selanoid bypassing neutral cut out and ingnision switch use only when i had heat soak trouble gentlmen start engines
Mount the ford solenoid on the wheel well or firewall. Take the battery cable loose from the starter and attach it to the big post on the ford solenoid next to the small S terminal. Run a battery cable with a lug on both ends from the other big post on the ford solenoid to the starter. Remove the wire from the S terminal on the chevy solenoid and attach it to the S terminal on the ford solenoid. Put a jumper from the bat lug to the S terminal on the chevy solenoid. I use a 12 ga wire for this or if I have any laying around at the time I flatten an appropriate sized piece of copper tubing and drill two holes in it. One thing i like about doing it this way is that you have a place up away from the starter to attach power leads for other things and a handier place to hook up a remote start switch in case you need to use one while working under the hood.
It's a good approach, but what if the wiring from the neutral safety to S on the solenoid is marginal. The Ford solenoid (I call it a starter relay, as a solenoid is both electrical and mechanical, the Ford part is strictly electrical with NO mechanical linkage) could very well bug out on hot day too. If you are getting 4-6V at the S terminal, I doubt that even the Furd relay will not operate reliably.
if you have the stock wireing harness use a 10 gauge wire from the switch to the starter or netural switch then to the starter.
This approach is not to fix marginal or poor wiring between the starter switch and the starter solenoid. It is to fix the problem of the hot GM solenoid requiring more amps to engage than even good wiring can provide. I started using this approach about 30 years ago to fix a hot start problem on a 69 camaro. Since then I have used it on several vehicles and have not had a hot start problem of this nature.
I have the same issues with my wife's Nova. Years ago I installed the Ford solenoid system on my dad's Chevy powered motor home. Worked great. The relay sounds like a great way to simplify the install. Here is a coupe diagrams to help. mj40's
I put a Ford solenoid on my 71 GMC after having hot start problems with it. Rather than do like Mj40's showed on the left photo in post 22 I ran the cable from the Ford solenoid to the bat post on the Delco Solenoid and used a flattened strip of copper tubing between the Bat and S posts on the Delco solenoid. This was after I tried the push button and heavier wire trick that helped but didn't always work. No matter how you hook that part of it up it's still paramount that you have clean and tight connections all through the system, proper gage wire and cables for the job and a battery that is up to the task. Cutting corners on any part of the setup is leaving yourself open to start issues.
i had the same problem. i removed the battery disconnect switch and never had a problem again. 90% of electrical problems are due to bad connections. i did voltage drop testing to confirm the disconnect was the problem. never have used one ever again.
Does the car have a chevy steering coloumn? My car had all kinds of hard start issues. I bypassed the chevy ignition and went with a push button switch and nice "thickish" wiring. Problem solved. I also cleaned up all the grounds including removing the starter and cleaning the metal on the engine block where the starter bolts up since it relies on this for the ground. Good luck Brent
What is the part number of this relay or how do I tell these parts stores what I want since they go bonkers if you don’t give them a year,model,I’m sure you know what I am talking about!
Please tell me what kind of Ford solenoid,or year,make so I know what to ask for at parts store,THANKS
any Ford car or truck from the mid 50s till the 80s, eh? there are thousands of applications...pick one you like.
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