Today, I was speaking with a NASCAR driver about ZDDP additives. I asked him what he thought of STP Oil Treatment. I said, STP claims to have ZDDP and other anti-wear agents in it. He said, "He would never use it because it doesn't mix with oil." I went home and poured a mixture of 10% STP with 10w20 (not synthetic) in a glass jar, and the two would not mix. I stirred it, shook it, agitated them, but they would not mix. I'm now skeptical about using STP. What do you think?
Please read the information on the following web site - they address STP, other additives and oils. They are an Alliance Vendor here. I'd say they are the gurus. www.zddplus.com
I have cleaned a solid layer of STP out of the bottom of a few oil pans, still nice & clean, still right where it landed when it was poured in- and pretty close to clogging the pickup
I only like oil in the fill hole. Find a good quality oil that has a decent amount of ZDDP. Leave the snake oil at the store.
I cleaned to much of it out of the bottom ends engines with clogged up oil screens and the main bearings knocking to use it in a good engine. Back in the day it came in a tin can, If I had a worn out oil burner I was trying to get a little more life out of, I would warm the engine up good and leave it running, then cut the top out of the can and heat the bottom until the STP was pretty thin. Then I would slowly trickle it in to the running engine and drive it a while. It seemed to mix that way, and would slow the oil consumption down a bit.
This might help: 10W30 Lucas Racing Only, full synthetic = 106,505 psi zinc = 2642 ppm phos = 3489 ppm moly = 1764 ppm 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi zinc = 1669 ppm phos = 1518 ppm moly = 784 ppm 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi zinc = 1472 ppm phos = 1544 ppm 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi zinc = 1180 ppm phos = 1112 ppm moly = 162 ppm 30 wt Red Line Race Oil, full synthetic = 96,470 psi zinc = 2207 ppm phos = 2052 ppm moly = 1235 ppm 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil, full synthetic = 95,360 psi zinc = 1431 ppm phos = 1441 ppm moly = 52 ppm 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL (semi-synthetic) = 90,226 psi zinc = 1221 ppm phos = 955 ppm moly = 99 ppm
For break in on new lifters and cam - yes. Absolutely should have ZDDP levels high enough to allow the lifters and cam to wear in without wearing away. For an old engine that has well worn in - maybe. I figure it is cheaper and easier than changing out a cam and lifters to put a bottle of ZDDP additive with new low-ZDDP oil, or use oil with ZDDP. Roller lifters do not need the ZDDP like flat tappets do. BTW, I have had a cam and lifters fail due to not using the ZDDP additive in an older engine, so I error on the caution side now.
i've tried a lot of different brands the best so far is Brad Penn, use it in everything from a ford flat head to a blown alky bbc
Dad always taught me to add STP to a hot, running engine.......never cold...... He's used the stuff for over 50 years..........in old engines.
J don't know if this is true or not, but I have read that most oils are not compatible with ZDDP. I would use Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs oil without any additives. Just my 2 cents worth
Depending on how radical your build is what would make my mind up. High spring pressures and high lift cam=Redline or Lucas. Mild build with stock springs and mild lift cam =Quaker state Defy or VR-1. Some of the boutique oils are hard to find. BTW there are other zinc additives that do mix well with oil if needed.
I thought "ZDDP" was a name brand product made with high levels of ZINC (as well as other additives to help prevent premature engine wear). STP, Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, and ZDDP all have the ZINC additive, as well as the other additives. I think the ZDDP term is being misused, the term ZINC is what the discussion is about. Butch/56sedandelivery.
Maybe a little off topic, but what's the opinion on Lucas oil stabilizer? It's the stuff they have in the little parts counter demonstrators where you turn a hand crank and a bunch of gears inside a transparent case spin. One side has regular motor oil and the other has Lucas oil stabilizer. The Lucas stuff immediately climbs up the gears as they turn while the regular oil side pretty much looks like a splash oiler operation. Seems like it'd be a good thing...it looks a lot like STP. Thicker than snot, but Lucas has a good reputation. I'll probably get laughed at for asking, but whadya think of the stuff?
I use ZDDP brand additive in every flat tappet engine. Even old British motorcycle engines that have lifters that don't spin. No failures. Racing oil does not have enough detergent for street use. At $10 retail ZDDP is good insurance. ASE Certified Master Technician 40+ years experience.
Think of all those older Jeep Cherokees and Grand Cherokees you see running around.Millions of them have the inline 6 known for 300,000 mile service life.All of them have flat tappets and you think the owners always use high ZDDP oil? And all the 99 and older Chevy PU trucks,flat tappets 305's and 350's I think once well broken in a stock engine will do ok on the typical 800 PPM zinc in modern regular oils. But if you have any doubts,run a high zinc oil.
I have used STP in everything i run, never had an issue. I have Cooked engines that i use this in hard, and no damage. Now is it the STP? who knows, i like it and will continue to use it.
What we are worried about is Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates better known as ZDDP. It's not just plain old zinc. As for brand names I've never seen one just called ZDDP, are you thinking of ZDDPlus? Or one of the others with ZDDP in their names? ZDDP Maxx, etc.
Well, a couple of weeks ago I read in a H.A.M.B. thread that STP High Milage oil additive with ZINC was available at Wal-Mart. I went and bought some and added it to the '57 235 in my T-bucket in which I use Shell's Rotella T 15-40 oil. Now, after reading this thread I'm wondering if I should drain and change the oil and stop using STP.
I have heard good and bad things about the oil stabilizer. The bad that I have seen with my own eyes was foaming. The oil had turned almost white with air bubbles. IMHO run a good quality oil and a good filter. Leave the additives on the shelf.
can't beileve you just said that!!!!!! THE ZDDP's were removed from ALL OILS!!!!!! it's gone! zippo! gone! do you get it?? If you don't use additives you will make a pile of shit out of your pre roller engine. read LEARN!! from these guys on the HAMB!!!! what some are saying is a couple of oils... brad penn ect. my wifes of topic car SSEI bonnie chewed up the push rods and rockers. the mechanic said he does a lot of them. never heard of it till 6 years ago. it's because of the lack of lube in the oils....ZDDP!!!
You quoted my response to someone asking about Lucas oil stabilizer. And you are wrong on top of that. Zinc is still in some oils but not all. Here is a recent UOA of some Quaker State Defy: OIL: QS Defy 10W-30 MILES IN USE 4950 MILES ON VEHICLE:176,972 SAMPLE TAKEN 5/20/12 ALUMINUM 4 CHROMIUM 1 IRON 23 COPPER 4 LEAD 3 TIN 0 MOLYBDENUM 102 NICKEL 1 MANGANESE 0 SILVER 0 TITANIUM 0 POTASSIUM 2 BORON 106 SILICON 9 SODIUM 105 CALCIUM 2155 MAGNESIUM 14 PHOSPHORUS 904 ZINC 1003 BARIUM 0 INSOLUBLES 0.4 WATER 0 COOLANT 0 FLASHPOINT ºF 380 SUS VIS 210ºF 59.5 cSt @ 212ºF 10.08
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/viewall.html good article on the totality of the subject
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