After all the adaptors and ****, the overall length of of my engine and trans from front to back would be longer than stock, so what can I do with the existing ****** crossmember/mount in the frame? In other words, my whole frame and suspension are stock now, and I'd like to use the original rear end, radious rods and center crossmember. How can I do this if I put a 59A Flathead in it with a shortened LaSalle transmission? Any help would be great. Thanks, -Dean
Putting a V8 in an A frame, even with a Ford trans, is not a bolt-in. If you used a Ford trans you'd need to make a crossmember for the back of the trans that corresponds with the rear trans mount (many different variations over the years). If you use a Lasalle that has been converted to a Ford trans mount on the rear you will make the same kind of crossmember, just farther back. And you will need to shorten your torque tube and driveshaft. Or you could let the whole engine move forward, but you will probably end up with radiator clearance problems. Maybe you could lengthen the frame behind the front crossmember? None of this is easy. But if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.
That LaSalle tail shaft can be thrown in the s**** pile, modify some internal shafts and redrill for the Ford u-joint coupler.
Many builders dont want the bother BUT the best thing you can do to an A frame is add a X member. This also serves as an easy place to fab the ****** mount. I used a sectioned 39 X but got the inspiration from http://www.dagelsstreetrods.com/
So it wouldn't interfere with the main, center crossmember thats already in a stock 'A frame? Just fabricate a new one to bolt the trans to in front if it? This is kind of a vague question, but here it goes...A buddy of mine has an old Offy adaptor for a LaSalle to a 59A Flatty (suposed to be) and its in the overall shape of a bellhousing (not a thin plate). If this is bolted to the trans, then to the already cast bellhousing on the block, how long do those gears in the trans have to be to fit into the mill? We did some measuring and it looks like they would stick out just a couple of inches past the adaptor, but I dont have a block on hand to see if thats enough........ (at least this isn't complicating) -Dean
Dean, Do you want a FREE 1941 Ford Flathead block for mockup work? I can show you the modified LaSalle shafts too. PM me. Bob
Not to high jack the tread, but could you post pic's? I'm in the middle of this same problem in my build, except I would like to run an open drive shaft.
No problem, If I can't roundup all the bits tonite I'll get them over the weekend and shoot some photos.
Maybe this will help visualize; its a stock 38 LaSalle box that is going behind a 324 Olds in my 43 1/2 ton.
When I boxed me frame. I gutted the stock member and made this one out of 2 inch square tube. Im using a 53 Merc 3sp/OD which is long and fat. Silly me made it nice and square. Then found out the shifter didnt fit, had to cut it out and turn it around, now it fits !
This is a great post, I'm sure HotRod28AR is getting the info neede, I know I have, Thanks for asking the right question 28AR.
I just sent a guy in England an old article on LaSalle to Ford adaptation, with a detail sketch of cuts needed in Ford bearing retainer. I think he will scannit and pos*** here--I have no scannage available. Now, the next level--those 1980's vintage Ford pickup topshifter four-speeds--anybody done one of those to a torque tube?? There is a guy doing this commercially for Model A's, but he only does complete kits for lots of $$. his is a top-loader based design with reverse inside the main case...
Now, the next level--those 1980's vintage Ford pickup topshifter four-speeds--anybody done one of those to a torque tube?? That is the SROD version of the true muscle car RUG code top loader. The steel case was used in 79 only and is fairly rugged. After that they went aluminum. In any event the single rail setup is far from ideal. There is a guy locally putting 56 and later guts in a 39 case. He does it for the vintage racer restoration crowd and its also a bit pricey.
No, not the SROD. In (roughly) '85 or so, there were 3 and 4 speed pickups with true top shifters, like a '39, obviously based on the old toploader design. I believe the four speeds had overdrive fourth, and a rather strange gear train to get that...and this is yet another setup from the well-known but almost unfindable Jeep shifter top for the four speed. Wider range of gears is just what flatheads need. Somewhere around here I have the address for the guy who does this as a Model A adaptation...basic adaptation is obviously much like a LaSalle, with Ford bearing retainer adapted to back of late trans... Post-55 Ford trans case is longer than early Ford, isn't it?? How does he do that? '49-55 trans carry on basic overall dimensions of early case, but have no strength advantge.
Bruce - I saw one of those truck conversions on eBay about a year ago - went for big bucks. The gearing is quite low though & I'm not sure would be suitable for a hopped up flatty in a light rod. I believe those ******s were used in 3/4-ton & larger. The aluminum (first year iron) 3+OD that looks like a Toploader (also found in Granadas) is a different beast & more closely related to the T&C Toploader of '60s fame than the truck piece used in the above conversion. Should be nearly bolt on for 8BA & stamped steel bellhousing (I think two bolts line up, one needs redrilled, & one needs an ear welded on the bell). The Jeep T176 is pretty much a toploader Ford 4-speed & the topshifter can be made to work on the legendary bullet-proof 4-speeds, as you know. I've got the top cover from a Jeep, but no shifter handle - they're harder to find than the top covers themselves (incidentally, there's a top cover on eBay right now - about $100 or so). Last shifter handle I saw went for over $125! You can now get new Jeep top covers & Toploader cases already clearanced for this conversion (in Steel or Aluminum) from David Kee who builds Toploaders for the high-end Cobra kit car & Musclecar restorers. I don't know the price, but if the rest of his stuff is any indication, they ain't cheap - but if you gotta ask... Regardless, I think a toploader is overkill for the overwhelming majority of flattys though... Semi-related - I've got a T5 topcover coming - I'm going to investigate converting that to true toploader with a bit of fabrication/machine work. I think it could be done w/o too much trouble. I also believe a 4WD T5 (like S10 or Jeep) could be adapted to closed driveline for early Ford w/o too much trouble either.
I have scanned the article that Bruce Lancaster so kindly sent me, but it's too big a file to post here, even when I zipped it. Please send me a message if you want a copy and I'll forward it.
Thanks alot for the info-its taken me long enough but now I have a clear picture of how to do this. How much of a pain is it to shorten up the torque tube? Same as any driveshaft would be? Everything will be going together this fall so I'll keep you posted if I run into any snags. Thanks again! -Dean
Bruce, I have one of those 3sp toploader truck ******s with the top shifter. It's a bolt-up to a cast bellhousing basically. Mine has the holes for the bellhousing added to the trans case rather than the other way around. I was going to see if a friend of mine could machine up an adapter plate that would adapt the rear cover from the T/L to the rear cover/trans mount for my '40 trans. Then it would just be a matter of shortening and resplining the ouput shaft. I'll see what I can do. I'd really like to get my hands on one of the 3sp overdrive ******s though. It would be nice to have a 4th under 1:1.
Here's one of the 5-speeds I've seen adapted: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-TRUCK-F350-ZF-5-SPD-TRANSMISSION-351W_W0QQitemZ7990512125QQcategoryZ33733QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem First gear is down in the 5.79 range!
"No, not the SROD. In (roughly) '85 or so, there were 3 and 4 speed pickups with true top shifters, like a '39, obviously based on the old toploader design. I believe the four speeds had overdrive fourth, and a rather strange gear train to get that...and this is yet another setup from the well-known but almost unfindable Jeep shifter top for the four speed. Wider range of gears is just what flatheads need. Somewhere around here I have the address for the guy who does this as a Model A adaptation...basic adaptation is obviously much like a LaSalle, with Ford bearing retainer adapted to back of late trans... Post-55 Ford trans case is longer than early Ford, isn't it?? How does he do that? '49-55 trans carry on basic overall dimensions of early case, but have no strength advantge." The larger ****** in the picture is a 5 spd top loader from an 88 F250. Ford Code E8TA DD. 5th gear is OD. The bell is cast as part of the ******. Im not aware of any aftermarket adapters. The other ****** is a 83 SROD for size comparison. Somewhere I have a Chevy 4 spd OD box from an 80's pickup. Standard GM flange pattern, 3 shifting levers and a short tailshaft. Made by New Departure and it looks like it would be much easier to fit in tight quarters. The guy doing the 56 box conversions machines a new mainshaft and what else I dont know. Met him at a heat treating facility when I was delivering some stuff. I believe his complete ready to go conversion is around $1500.
Crossmember pics, and although I have posted these pics before there is an update. The tapered cut ends and collar press fit and pinned driveshaft was thought to be sturdy enough. Turns out not so, more traction than thought, I snapped a pin and spun the joint. I put in a fresh pin, set it up as shown and welded it deep and then s***ched completely with a second bead while checking for straight. Took a while but I believe it is close enough (less than .010) and won't break now. But I haven't had it over 20 mph yet, when I get it a liscense road speed can be tested. Even though it is freshly ***embled, still a big job to pull the body and get the rear ***embly out, no fun to back-track. http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=60053&img=8684Dsc00892.jpg http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=60150&img=776Dsc00962.jpg http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=83680&img=DSC01781.JPG http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=83681&img=DSC01783.JPG http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=107308&img=425DSC02621.JPG http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=106803&img=DSC02623.JPG
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