Another shoebox suspension question

I have a 1951 ford victoria ( not technically a shoebox ) I would like to upgrade the front suspension to a ball joint style with disk brakes, and for financial reasons i would like to stay with a setup that i can grab from a junkyard. NOT a clip, just converting from kingpins to balljoints so when I lower it there wont be as many camber issues. Does anyone know of a model and year of front suspension parts that might bolt up to my stock stuff? Any help would be appreciated, I would love a gambinos frame stub but the $3000+ eludes me at this time!!!

 

Jamco used to offer a kingpin-to-balljoint conversion that bolted on, and gave you disc brakes in the bargain. I don't know if they still offer it, and I suspect that it's also in the thousands price-wise, but I think it's the only bolt-on conversion you'll find.

 

If your to cheap of a person just keep the drums.

You wont be going fast enough to need disk brakes anyways.

Google is your friend, when you have no clue.

Here is a disk set up, not to sure why your all worried about lowering it?

http://jamcosuspension.com/products/sfID1/33/sfID2/132/sfID3/35/productID/458

 

Quote "I would like to upgrade the front suspension to a ball joint style with disk brakes, and for financial reasons i would like to stay with a setup that i can grab from a junkyard. NOT a clip, just converting from kingpins to balljoints"

I just love a good Joke.

 

I don't get the joke ? is it not possible to find something in the late 50's, 60's or later that would not bolt up? that's all I'm asking, otherwise i probably will save up for the Gambino setup. Thanks For the help guys!

 

No, when they redesign cars the new stuff rarely fits the old cars, especially if you go forward two decades or more in time. Disk brakes became common in the 70s....

 

Thanks , guess ill start saving!!!!!

 

What do you have against doing a Clip? This is a 70 Nova. I bought a complete running car for 1K, Sold the running gear and recovered my investment. Sold the front sheetmetal and made $600.oo. I still had the front frame and rear end. Everything that makes it steer, roll and stop are 70 Nova. It took about 6 hours to join the frames together and paint everything. I'm still driving the car, It too is a 51 Vicky.
The Wizzard

 

Nice work!, Ive done a clip before on my 66 ford f100, nothing against them its just the 51 is so clean and rust free and original that i'm trying to cut it up the least amount as possible. The rear is getting a 4 link step notch and bags, and thats going to take some t*******.....Hows the track width on the nova? Ive seen an s-10 clip and it was a lot narrower

 

man your all over the place...its too nice to cut up so you dont want to clip it,,yet your going to 4 link and notch the back?
as for the s10...i put a s10 clip under my 53 ford,,the frame rails are very close in width,the track width on the s10 is narrower....i used wheel spacers/adapters so i could get back to the correct width and use ford wheels...
s10 clips are super cheap... and lots of aftermarket parts for them

 

My number 1 reason for the Nova choice over S-10 is steering box location. I wanted to use a stock core support and rebuilt stock Radeiator in the 51 and a S-10 won't let you. The wheel track could be a little narrower to run a deep reversed wheel like I like them but with stock steel Nova rime I never rub a tire on the fender.
The Wizzard

 

I have a Nova clip in my Vic. It's narrowed 3" and stepped 4", and I had 15 x 6 wheels made with different offsets for front & rear clearance. With a 350 and 700R4, it was necessary to alter the firewall, trans tunnel and driveshaft tunnel for adequate clearance. It was also necessary to raise the front wheel wells for adequate steering lock with the wider front track.
Turned out well, but it was a lot of work.

 

Do a search on here for the S-10 clip by "Shiny"
It's a step by step and looks easy.
It may be under the technical department.

 

You must have used a newer (1974 up) to need that much modification to the Clip. On My 51 I "did NOT" narrow the frame or modify the Firewall, trans tunnel, or driveshaft tunnel. My 51 also runs a 350 - - 700R-4 and turns lock to lock, no issues. My wheelwells are stock as from Ford. I also am running the Non Tilt 51 Ford steering column and steering wheel with the 1951 Ford automatic column shifter connected to the 700R and hits all 4 shift detents. Now that took a fair amount of work, but it looks correct to me. Even the stock switch for Park and Nuteral start works as it should. That also was a lot of work but worth it.
The Wizzard

 

Not to change the subject, but I have always loved 50Fraud's car. Looks almost stock, but then.........

 

I have no idea how it was possible to do yours without narrowing the clip. Every other Nova clipped shoebox that I have seen has also had a narrowed frame. The Nova/Camaro rails are nowhere near a match for the Ford rails. Yes, mine is a front steer (later) clip, but I didn't think the track was different. It was a disc brake clip, and I believe the track is 3/4" wider with discs than with drums.

The alteration to the firewall was to make the distributor removable with the engine in the car; all of the other mods were made because of the stepped frame (4" lowering), which raised the engine, trans, and wheels 4" relative to the body.

Thanks, Tubman.

 

Ya sorry about that! I tried to get all my ideas out there! The frame is solid, and other than the notch in the back, I wanted to try to update the technology without cutting it up. The body is going to have to be clearanced no doubt about it!

 

That's exactly what i'm looking for, to use the stock steering column with the automatic column shifter and steering! Do you have any pics of the installation? Is the Nova a uni-body type clip like the camaro's, or is it a whole frame? Sorry about all the questions!

 

I have a 50 but changing mine to a straight axel so I don't need to worry .
I was looking into doing a simple frame clip to mine before I decided to build a g***er . I looked at the Nova , Camaro and Monte Carlo . Those clips are used on so many cars it's not funny . Anyway the Nova and Camaro are the easiest to do . I guess you are using a Chev engine so the Nova would be the easiest and they are fairly easy to find as well . You can score the cheaper 4 door grand mother 6 bangers very cheap too .
But if you just want something to help stop that heavy car , then I would just get the Jamco kit for less than $500 and be done with it . If not get a Nova and cut away .
There is never an easy or cheap junk yard swap when it comes to changing a king pin front end to a ball joint front end !

Retro Jim

 

I confess I do not know a lot about the years of Nova interchange. I'm told that when they went to Rubber inserts in the bumpers from solid Chrome the wheel track got wider. That must have been 72 or 73. My clip is a 1970 rear steer. I have a Mallory dual point dist converted to Pertronix and 1&1/2" behind it to the unmolested stock fire wall. I have a long water pump on it with a 1" spacer and 1&1/2" between fan blades and rad. I also have a stock heater and blower motor in place and enough room to remove the valve cover. Look close at the Frame photo and you can see nothing was done to narrow it and it was within 1/2" of exact width of the Ford frame where I joined them together. Again, nothing was done to the floor to clear the 700-r-4 and the trans mount is bolted to the stock 51 trans crossmember.
The Wizzard

 

Thanks Retro Jim, I'm actually using a hi-po 302 and an AOD out of a 87 Lincoln mark7. So I would have to make my own motor mounts, which is not a problem, unless there's a viable ford clip option out there as I would love to keep it all Ford if possible! I know there is a lot more gm options out there! The best bet just might be Jamco or mustang2 frame stub from Gambinos

 

I ***ume you used the stock steering box from the Nova, was there any problems getting it to mate with the stock Ford column? Impressive frame shot, cant hardly tell its been clipped!

 

68-74 nova is rear steer, 75-79 is front steer.

67-69 camaro is rear steer, 70-81 is front steer.

The camaro and Nova are pretty much the same clip, although for several years one was rear steer and the other was front steer. So you need to know what year you're talking about.

 

Squirrel; Thanks for clearing that up. Is the tire track width the same 68-74?

Steering box is Nova of course. I spent more time on the steering column and shifter than I did the graph. Look at the inside shot and notice the welting on the Carpet around the column.
Also I moved the motor mount stands forward on the frame to set the motor where I wanted it. That may be why I did not need to modify the Firewall.
The Wizzard

 

get a ECI disc kit! i just installed one of their kits and it went on great, just had to grind caliper where hose bolted on and reclock it's position.

 

Not a disc brake solution, but if you're running 4 drums ECI also has a dual MC setup for Shoeboxes.

EC-450 is about $220 for automatic transmissions.

EC-450-S is about $225 for standard transmissions, and requires a 10lb residual valve that ECI also sells.

Didn't mean to rob your thread, just thought I'd put it up for fellas looking for info. I just did this research for myself a few days ago.

ECI says the MC is further back than stock, but can be checked and filled from under the car. They also have a remote fill option, but for an additional $190 I'll throw the car on the lift and check it myself.

 

Go the last post on page 1 of this link and look at the photo of my frame. That is the E.C.I. KIT. They say there pedal goes through the factory hole in the floor. That was not the case for me and my 51 Ford. I also bought the master Cyl. they recomended for my Nova front disc and drum rears. That didn't work out for beans. The booster hung below the frame several inches. Not Good!!! The brake pedal mount flexed as well as the booster mount to the point I decided it was "Not" up to my standards. Being the floor was modified for the pedal and the Carpet was in I kept the pedal and hand built the rest over as I should have to start with. Sure hope you have better results than I did. Would I buy it again? NO.
The Wizzard

 

That's really great to know, thank you for the info! How did you get the MC high enough to be happy with it? I'll be running dropped uprights and Aerostar coils and am concerned about how low everyone says the ECI kit hangs.

 

Even with what I did, I'm not happy with it. If you look at the photo of the bare ch***is you will see the mount with the booster and master. Look close at the space from the frame mount plate with the 4 bolts and the space from the top to the horozontal plate the booster mounts on. I built a complete new mount raising the horozontal piece I think it was 2". Instead of using 3/16" plate I used 1/4" and 3/8" plate. The 3/8" is a gusset from the booster mount to the frame mount that is welded in under the booster making a Skid Plate to protect the booster. It has plenty of road rash on it. Once it gets worn down I'll just add another one to it. The option is to not run a booster. The master is mounted right up to the floor pan with a bout a 1/4" clearance. I also had to make a p***age through the crossmember for the pushrod. I also made a support bar that goes from the brake pedal shaft back to the trans crossmember to stop the flex in the pedal. I talked to there Tec guys several times and pretty much got blown off. There standard answer for everything I addressed was "Gee we never had that problem before, You must be doing something wrong". They were right, what I did wrong was buying there product.
The Wizzard

 

Damn! Well, a booster won't do me a lot of good, as I'll be running a lumpy cam in my 8BA and multiple carbs. Can you post a pic of how it ended up, including your skid plate?

What would you use for a MC next time, and how would you do it different?