?! Chevy Starter Doesn't Work When It Gets HOT !?

The starter on my Chevy 350 won't crank when it gets hot. It used to take a long time of driving on a hot day to produce this result, but now it will do this after a short drive on a nice night. The remedy... pour ice water from the cooler on it until she cranks. That shit gets old fast. I tossed another(read- not new) starter in it, but it hacks the flywheel severely and won't turn the engine. It needs starter shims, right? The original starter didn't use any. Hmmm...

My questions are:
1. Could my first starter have been getting weaker and less prone to heat?
2. Are starter shims the correct fix for my latest starter?

Soaking my starter with ice water all the time is a huge pain in the ass. I want to be rolling the Rte.66 Cruise at the HAMB Drags. Any words of experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanx!
Bil

 

yes and yes.they sell heat shield blankets for those too...

 

Hi Bill. What you need for the first starter is what G M called a short spring. It is the spring between the soleniod and the starter.When your starter gets heat soaked your solenoid can not over come the stock spring. The GM part # last time I bought one was #1958679. Hope this helps. RLS
Bil[/QUOTE]

 

When I worked at Advance 4 or 5 years back they had SBC solenoid heat shields in the HELP! section. They look like a can that slides over your solenoind. Should be able to rob one in a boneyard too.

 

Some of the mini starters have shielded solenoid plus its usually alot further from the exhaust because of the size of the starter body. I tried a shield on a stock starter but still had the same problem from time to time. The mini starter eliminated it totally.

 

2 things:

1. you can use a starter from a 95 or 96 and newer gm (smaller and magnetic), the problems with this is it has no 12v kick up terminal for points, you have to use shorter bolts (must use starter bolt with the collar), they are more $$$ then the regular ones.
2. you can install a ford solenoid away from the heat.

 

That would be my answer also. Yes, it sounds like you need shims and yes the heat is killing your starter. Heat is death to electrical preiod, much less when it's sitting next to headersor exhaust. The best fix is probably the heat shield. Esay to install and it will prolong the life of your starters immensely.

 

PowerMaster starter............end of the story, end of the problems.......about $200 and worth every penny.....

 

Shims! I can't tell you how different each starter can be. I had to play with shims for a while to get it right after killing a few flex plates. There is a BIG difference in the sound if you have it shimmed right or wrong. If its right it will make NO noise. Wrong it will either not connect to the flex plate or it will sound like a wood saw cutting when you start.

 

Thanks guys. I have a game plan for tomorrow. I going to get a heat shield and some starter shims.

Question: is there a trick or technique to shimming a Chevy starter?
Do you just loosen the bolts and slide a shim between the the block and the starter-
tighten it up and try it? Then keep adding until you get it right?

I never had to shim a Ford in my life... but they came with thier own box of Pandoras

Thanx, Bil

 

When you see the shim, it will splain it's self. Iff not take one bolt OUT, inset the shim, between the block and starter, line it up reinsert the other bolt. Repeat if needed.

 

Just my opinion, I have never had any luck with the heat shields.
I had a starter that did the same thing on my 48, put a heat shield on it, same thing. Finally changed the starter and have not had any problems in the last three years.

 

the best way, the cheapest way, is to use a ford solenoid. jump the 12v(+ bat.) lug on the starter to the starter lug with at least 10 ga. copper wire. your + battery cable installs directly to the ford solenoid and from the there to your starter. the only wires on your starter should be the jumper and the battery cable from the ford solenoid. mount the solenoid right above the starter on the firewall. all other (hot) wires go the ford solenoid. this is an old racers trick that has always worked very well. .......regards.....

 

that's one way to do it, but the right way is to shim it so there is exactly 1/8" clearance between the flywheel and the starter shaft. Put a 1/8" allen wrench in there between the two, if it fits and you can't twist it then it's right. If it won't fit, then add a whole shim and try again. If it fits but you can twist it, then you need to reduce clearance, so cut a shim in half and install it between the starter and block at the outer hole, so it angles the starter closer to the flywheel. Keep messing with it till it has the correct clearance. It should be quiet then, unless the starter or flywheel are damaged.

 

I got a hot blanket on mine and it still doesn't crank it well when its hot. It just old and tired.

If your starter is chewing the flywheel then it needs shimmed or perhaps its the wrong tooth gear. GM starters came two ways but I can't remember the tooth count.

If the gear on the starter is the same as the one you took out the simplest remedy is to pull the nose cone off the old starter and put it on the new one.
The difference in the nose cone is why you have to shim 'em.
Ya migh take a look at the bushing while you got it apart and consider a $.25 bushing before you put it back together.

 

Hi Bil!

Check your battery cables before you go out and buy a starter. Especially the grounds. Your battery ground cable should go straight to the engine block. Clean em up and go for a test drive. If the situation improves, I suggest you go buy some welding cable and make new battery cables. Welding cable (for stick welding) will carry several times the amperage that a same-size battery cable will. It completely cured that bastard Chevy hot-start syndrome in my heap and is still working great six years later -in 100+ heat. Use cable ends that solder on. A propane torch and some rosin-core (acid free) solder and you're in business..

And fuck that Ford solenoid bullshit. It's redundant and craps up your firewall with extra wiring. The welding cable WORKS.

How's the missus?

Betty sez woof.

R

 

mmmmm...I got the same problem with the starter in my 51 merc.its got a 283 chevy lump,produced between 57-62.its got a 3 spd manual box.Can I get a mini starter to fit it and if so can anyone give me web address`s of suppliers.Thanks.kol

 

the small flywheel is an inch or so smaller than the big one...if it's the wrong starter for the flywheel then either it will be a mile away from the gear or you won't be able to bolt it on because the housing will hit the ring gear.

tooth count is either 153 or 168.

 

I got a heat shield and some shims. Can't mess with it today- gotta go to work. I'm also gonna clean my ground connection real good. I'll let you all know how this turns out. THANKS, guys for all the help on how to adjust it right. Now all I have to do is slide my fat ass under the car a few times and I should be set.

Thanks Rick! You'd of thought I'd have done this by now. Same thing as a few years back, only it's chronic now. The missus is still the love of my life- working on all things domestic. Ninja don't ride no more, but he does rule the porch floor by the front door for 23hrs a day. 1hr to TCB. Hope to see you one of these days.
Bil

 

Had a 61 Buick that acted the same. I replaced the solonoid and that fixed it. The solonoid cylinder was scored and wore out and would not let the piston move when it was hot.

 

i forgot to add that with a hidden ford solenoid it will be alot harder to steal. no power to the starter means no screwdriver........................

 

My old Pontiac used to have a weak ground or something. The starter would give trouble, stick on after a while or I'd have to use a jumper cable under the hood to crank it over. So I swapped on the one out of the parts car, and for a while every so often when it started to stick I would flip the copper disc in the end of the solenoid, then file it down, and so on.

After a while I got tired of muscling the 25 lb starter over the exhaust pipe on just my forearms - those muscles weren't built for that. So I put a new solenoid on it. For $10, it was fixed. Would crank now if i put a battery on it -

 

***UPDATE***


I slid under the car to hoist starters more times than I should in 100 degree weather with matching humidity because I'm a fool. Shimming the new starter didn't help at all. I measured the starter shaft to flywheel gap and this is what I came up with...

The results:
new starter= 7/32 gap
original(old) starter= 5/32 gap.

My guess:
the flywheel must be worn down all the way around. It's a little chewed in spots, but not real f*kd up. It'll last the season.

The solution:
I put the new solenoid on the old starter and wrapped it in heat shield. Larger cables will be in place before departure time.

The HOT tip:
I'll still carry plenty of water and a metal funnel. The ol' safe than sorry / garlic for vampires theory.

I learned a few things, sweat off a few pounds, kept all my fingers and didn't bleed too much. That's a success right there.

I really dig the idea of using allen wrenches as feeler gauges. I had to mike my collection of wrenches to get them in some sort of ascending order. Neat trick!

Thanks for all the help, guys. See you at MoKan.
Bil

 

I bought a starter 3 years ago that somehow fit with no shims. I always had the hot start issue and tried heat sheilds with no success.

When the starter fianally died and I went for a replacement I went through several that all had spacing issues and never fiit right. I got my old one back from them and headed to a starter rebuild shop for it to be repaired.

I told him of the trouble of finding one that fit and told him the one that I bought almost fit but needed just too many shims to get it right.

He said the reason I was having problems was back at the factory they used the same starteres for alot of applications but would mill the casing down for each one and they never put any kinda of markings on them so you would no what they came off of.

He said if you have one that fits hold on to it and rebuild. I said thats why I'm here now.

Ater he took the starter I just started talking about the hot start issue. For a little extra money he said they could make it heavy duty where that won't be an issue. Not sure what they do when they make it heavy duty but my starter cranks so fast now and I have zero problems.

It was the best money I ever spent. Just the peace of mind to know your car is gonna crank when your on a roadtrip and have to stop for gas was priceless for me.

Starter is about 1 1/2 years now and still doing well..

 

Lots of "rebuilt" starters nowadays have new nose cone castings, they don't look like the original Delco ones.

I've rebuilt several starters, usually they just need bushings and brushes and a solenoid and drive. Some replacement parts are better than others though.

 

you can make your own heat shield-take a soup can, cut it half, put insulation on the inside and use a big hose clamp to attatch it