Can you have a coil AND points?

Searched on packard info forum for points. You probably already have. Here's the link.
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/parts/index.php?cat=19&catname=ELECTRICAL

 

Yes, those points are awful.. The contacts should look smooth and shiny.

 

Nuts, thanks! Plm, GOOD this is the first part that I have checked so far that is NOT looking good, we MIGHT have found the problem!

 

Rock Auto says you have a 40's Delco dizzy that was used on a jillion GM's. They list rotors and caps, but no points. The tractor stuff might be correct, a lot of them used Delco's.

I have seen a lot of screwed up points, but never BLACK points. Wouldn't be surprised if the black stuff (what ever the hell it is) is acting as an insulator.

Clean those points with a file (no emery) and reinstall. They will work unless they fall apart. Maybe not perfect, but good enough until you find replacements. BTW, back in the day, Echlin stuff was about as good as you could get. I'd keep that condenser until it proves itself to be bad.

Bill

 

Do yourself a favor and make friends with your local REAL auto parts store. Loop Rd. Auto Parts in Garner is awesome. Not sure what's in Selma, but those guys know their stuff with old cars. Chris, Mark, and Gerald are on the left as you walk in. They're the old car guys...

 

Wow, that would be something if they could be resurrected. There is no point material left on the one side.

 

Thanks! That is right by me, I will go check them out!! I found points and condenser on ebay AND (HiWay Auto Parts) I ordered them both. Gona go to NAPA in the morning armed with old part numbers that I got from the PAC site and if they have any I am buying those too! I bet I wont NOT have points for my Packard again! I will keep yall posted with what I come up with and if they are worth a damn. Thanks again for all the help!

 

Yeah from what I gather from the Packard info site, my car (and all of the "junior" models) came with a Delco. Since the "Sienior" models came with the Autolite maybe someone "upgraded" it. You can just interchange cap and rotor on the same distributor, right? The rotor looks way different on The Delco ones, or has my whole distributor been swapped out at some point? Does it matter what points I get (i.e. for a Delco or for a Auto-lite) to go under the cap and rotor, or does it kinda do it's own thing regardless of what cap and rotor is above it? Pretty sue that it is fine, just want to check is all.

 

There should be a metal plate on the side of your distributor which gives you all the information required to get the right points,cap and rotor including giving the maker, Delco or Autolite.. Pretty sure this was mentioned earlier.

 

10 pages on points, I am impressed

 

My 50 DeSoto had a wonky distributor would short internally, consider rebuilding it.
Another thought is be sure that you have a good ground and not shorting the starter - my car would drain that 6v very fast. I r/r the starter and added a engine to firewall ground strap - the basket weave type and it made a cleaner path. My little British nightmare (MG) is also positive ground, 12v. I have read that positive ground can promote corrosion due to the electron flow. google that if yerreally bored

Poverty leaves an impression

 

Thanks will do!
Well today I have to de-grease, shave, shine up, and go to school (Digital electronics cl***, I HAD an A) I have cut school for the last week and a half to work on my car, and have boycoted shaving the whole time! Wait till I tell the tech kids about these mechanical sparky thingy's that are giving me hell, bet they will not touch them tho,...WAY to dirty! lol

 

After fighting it for 4 days, you should try new points, (they're burnt and broke) maybe a condenser, ( might look fine, but it's what's on the inside that counts) rotor, cap,(if you can find one), wires and plugs (properly gapped) as well... Do yourself a favor, and ask for this stuff at the oldest REAL auto parts store in your area...NAPA, Bumper to Bumper, Carquest....if they sell go karts, mini bikes, plastic (billet looking) throttle, brake and clutch pedal covers, go somewhere else....If there's a long rack full of catalogs somewhere on the parts counter, you probably found the right place.

Install all this, make sure your battery is fully charged, your timing is close, and your fuel is fresh, and give it a whirl.....10 pages of advise and sarcasm will NOT help, if you don't replace the bad stuff.

Good Luck

 

The points were part of the problem for sure..but you did say it did run
before this all started and you got it to pop a couple of times, so you had
fire in the cylinders.
Its time to rebuild the carb if you want her to run down the road.

 

Thanks! Yeah the carb leaks like hell from ALL gaskets. I was just hoping to get the car running half way reliably before I rebuild the carb, so as not to add another variable to this problem, but that and the lifter lash (Solid lifters) are the next two things on my list after it is going again.

 

On it! I will know tomorrow! I have bought points and condensers from three different spots, one of them is NAPA and they will be in the soonest (in the morning) I have a new cap and rotor, plugs are gaped and new, wire look brand new, gas is new, gona number the plug wire boots and take them and the plugs off/out, and check for the timing chain slack (just for the hell of it) on the advice of one of the Packard guys, and then set the timing, put the plugs and wires back and go take her for a spin! I really need to add my lame, NON-breaks, to the "to do" list...

 

Now that I'm thinking of it, I fought a similar issue with the Olds motor in my T roadster about a year ago. It was running fine, when all of a sudden, it started running like ****, and then ****...nothing. Fought it for a couple days, checking EVERYTHING, and it turned out the POS Schucks, NAPA, etc...condensor became disconnected internally. Bought a new one (from a REAL autoparts store), installed it and it fixed the problem. Sometimes 'new' parts from a questionable source are just as bad as the old ones...

 

I would try Antique Auto Supply in Arlington, TX. They have probably the largest stash of NOS car parts in the US.

 

Thanks!

 

i'm sure you can get the pints somewhere , as i said in one of my posts you will have to do some searching. as i mention , i see Borg Warner lists the coil,cap and rotor....so you should be able to get them locally by having Napa or O'reilly order them for you

let's see if we can make a thread on points 11 pages

 

Funny, I learned that about SBC's . . .

 

Throw them my way....

 

Catch!

 

NAPA had my condenser today but the points were the wrong ones. One of the other sets that I ordered will be here soon, I will keep yall posted. I too will take any spair SBC's ya have laying around!

 

Packard those points are burnt to oblivion. Have never seen a worse set. They must have been in there for 50,000 miles YET THE CAR RAN. So don't think points won't do the job.

When you get the new points you will see how thick the metal is and how smooth. When points have been in use for 10,000 miles they still have the flat surface with a little bump on one side and a little divot on the other, as material gets transferred from one side to the other. Which side, depends on if your condenser is above spec or below spec. If the points are just worn with no divot your condenser is perfect, keep that one.

At this point you might as well start from scratch. Remove the distributor if it is more convenient, in any case replace the points and condenser, clean the distributor and cap inside with alcohol or brake clean, lube the points rubbing block and cam. Adjust the points gap, don't worry if your feeler gauge is steel or br***, the br*** ones are only for electronic ignition pickups, which are magnetic.

Turn #1 cyl to TDC, look for the air to *woosh* out the plug hole. Set the engine to TDC by the timing mark, or whatever factory spec is. Adjust the timing by putting a 6 volt test light across the points and turning the distributor until the light comes on (the points open). That is the instant the spark fires. Method 1b use a multi meter instead of a light, but the light is easier.

Alternate method #2, if you do not have a 6V test light. Put a piece of cigarette paper between the points and gently tug as you turn the dist, when the paper comes free is when the points open. #2b The cellophane off a cigarette pack will also work.

Alternate method #3 if you tune a transistor radio between stations, and have the key on, you will hear a *pop* when the points open.

Once you get the car running you can set it with a regular timing light. But the static timing method is just as accurate. A man who knows what he is doing, can tune a car with no other instruments but feeler gauges and a vacuum gauge.

One more thing. When you monkey around with an old motor the spark plugs can get glazed with gas and oil. This makes a conductive coating that drains off the spark. I have even had this happen on brand new plugs that got badly fouled. It will not burn off and nothing will clean it off except sandblasting.

They make a small sandblaster that goes on an air hose, for spot blasting of bodywork. It looks like a paint spray gun with a cloth bag to catch the sand, and a selection of rubber nozzles for the end. They cost about $12 bucks at flea markets and auto parts stores. I use one all the time to sandblast old spark plugs, then file the middle electrode flat with points file if it is rounded off. Old plugs work good as new after this treatment.

 

I use to run points on my Volvo, but the quality of point went South and so did the price.
We are talking the last maximum the 5k km i went on an oilchange. So I went for pointless ignition, in a heartbeat. And it works like a charm, the company who makes them has never had an garanti case or and refund In the 40-some years they have been making them here In Denmark!
But like another user posted: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Your car, you call.
My only real advice is, stick with points until you are fed up, unhappy, spend the Cash you want to spend on them.
But use an respected brand, they are worthe it!! And so is that good looking car!

 

While we are on the subject. I bought a points file today at O'Rielie's .
I was trying to explain what points were, and what they did to the kid waiting on me, when one of the counter guys my age walked up and pointed right to it.
Performance tool part number W123C "Lifetime Warranty" !

 

We have ignition parts! That's what they are SUPPOSED to look like!!? Holly ****! No wonder my car won't start! I am cleaning the metal plate that they mount on and REALLY cleaning the places that the wires connect to it. I will report back soon!

 

Check the points are meeting evenly and touching in the middle. Sometimes the movable point gets bent a little, straighten it so the 2 meet flat and touch in the middle.

When you are done installing and setting the points wipe them off with alcohol, brake clean or contact cleaner and drag a strip of white paper between them until it comes out clean. If the points are perfectly clean they will last longer.

Don't forget to lube the points cam. If the points have a felt oiler give it a couple of drops of motor oil, synthetic if you have it. Don't over oil, you don't want oil going on the points. If no felt block, smear a little grease on the cam ( a dab about as big as a match head).

There are 2 wear areas on the points, one is the burning of the points themselves, the other is the rubbing block wearing down. Having a good condenser prevents the first, a little oil or grease prevents the second. If properly set up, a set of points should go 5000 to 10000 miles between adjustments. Then if you wish, you can check the dwell with a dwell meter, check the timing with a timing light, and go on your merry way without even popping the distributor cap. Or maybe just a slight dwell adjustment.

 

While you are at it you can test the vacuum advance. Put a rubber hose on where the vacuum hose goes to the carburetor. **** on it and see the advance mechanism move the plate in the distributor. If it does not move it is stuck, or if you can **** air through the diaphragm is blown.