56 Ford Victoria Overheating - need some creative ideas

Guys- trying to figure out the best way to do this-

56 Ford Victoria, 428CJ - Here is a picture

Im running a Griffin aluminum radiator with a pusher fan mounted in front

- I only have 1.5" between water pump pulley and back of radiator

2 problems

- Excessive heat under the hood.....While the headers were originally a great idea, I think they are creating a little too much heat under the hood

(The hood is getting VERY hot- I grew up around cars, and understand the concept that a hood is going to get hot- the hood is getting so hot that I am really concerned its going to ruin the paint)

- In 90 degree weather, car runs at 190 driving over 15MPH- which is good, problem is at idle, temperature creeps up at a pretty decent rate

- The temperature under the hood is causing some vapor lock at this point, but Im going to wrap the fuel line and am hoping by bringing the temps down in the engine compartment it will help

After 5 minutes at a stop light, it will creep up a good 15 degrees easy-


So here are the solutions Im looking at

- trying to put additional small puller fans on the back side of the radiator if I can make some fit

- mounting fans, or fans attached to some kind of ducting at the bottom of th engine compartment to try and pull air down out

- I dont have a heater, but I still have the "tube" running in through the passenger side inner fender- connecting a fan to try and pull hot air out through that tube?

- I also going to install a high flow thermostat, with a few holes drilled in it to try and help the flow of coolant

Any other ideas?

I checked the plugs, car is running spot on- timing is right where it should be

I mean I know I could louver the hood/ or worst case scenario lift the back of the hood a bit to let some of the hot air out- but would rather not do either of these

In 60 degree weather, I dont have any cooling issues- its just when it gets to be over 75 outside-

Any help anyone can offer would be much appreciated!

 

I have a couple of suggestions.

1) I do not see a vacuum advance on the distributor. That can make a car run hot at idle.

2) Pusher fans suck (well technically they blow, but I mean they aren't as efficient as a puller.)

3) Forget the thermostat and put a restrictor plate in there instead. They come generally as a kit of 3 with different sized holes in the center. You may have to play around until you get the right one.

4) With that motor size and those headers there is no where for the hot air to exit the motor room. You essentially have a heat producing motor in a sealed container with no cool air coming in.

Don

 

I am running a 351 Cleveland, manual trans in my 56 Mainline, running a Griffin 2-row with a shrouded elect. puller fan, no engine mounted fan, 185* thermostat. When its 100* outside it runs 190 moving to 200 idling

1. Make sure your antifreeze mixture is 50/50 or less
2. You might have to back off your initial timing some
3. Switch to a puller fan
4. Royal Purple Ice or your choice of water wetter
5. Wrap your headers

Larry

 

Cast iron exhaust manifolds are a great heat sink, headers are not and all that heat does go into making the engine/ engine compartment hotter.

Have you considered louvering the hood? That would let some of the heat out quickly.. plus look bitchin'.

Bob

 

How's the brakes working? Reason I ask, if you aren't using DOT5, that master cylinder could be absorbing heat and bring the brake fluid to a boil, causing air bubbles during a long drive.

also, second that puller fan idea...a pusher blocks airflow as much as it adds. Of course, the fan will have to turn the opposite direction or it'll push air out the grill. a shroud would also help so its not moving air off the ground or anywhere else but thru the rad.

water wetter, the royal purple stuff, may help too.

 

Have you thought about louvers in the inner fender panels to let some heat out??

 

Can you throw a mechanical fan on even if temporary? It might take the electric fan out of the equation and help to see if the rest of the cooling system is up to the job.

 

Move the radiator forward in the core support to gain room for a puller fan and shroud if possible. Run a high cfm electric fan like a Spal. I get mine from Matson. Give the hot air a way out. Like Tomkat said louvers even in the inner fenders will help.

Run a high flow water pump. I could not tell from the photo what pump you have.

I'm only about 15 minutes from you. I have a metal shear and brake and could help you fab up some brakets to move the radiator forward if you need. Just PM me.

 

Perfect answer. When I stuffed the 383 Chrysler in my '57 Ford, I ran into the exact same issue. Cool is ice running down the road, as soon as I'd hit some traffic; instant heating. Some of the things I did to fix the problem...
1 - Install a mechanical fan. The one I used is huge 7 blade from a 500 Cadillac, no clutch. It's like a tornado under the hood it moves so much air.
2 - I cut out part of the radiator support and moved my radiator forward. I'm using a 2, 1" row aluminum crossflow, out of a Mustang. It is on the small side for the size of the engine, but it works well.
3 - Build a fan shroud. This made all the difference. Since the radiator is at it's limit with cooling capacity, more air flow through it is crucial to keep things cool. I fashioned one out of some scrap sheet metal, painted it up and rolled with it. Not the prettiest thing ever, but very effective.
4 - Use some water wetter, to reduce the surface tension of the coolant.
5 - Run 60/40 water to antifreeze mixture, since the water has better cooling properties than antifreeze. You can even get away with less than that if you live in a warm climate that doesn't see freezing temperatures.
6 - I installed a big 3300 cfm pusher fan on the front of the radiator and hooked it to a manual push/pull switch on the dash. This is only for times when it's 90+ degrees out and I'm stuck in traffic for long periods. Pull it on, and the temp will sit steady at 200-210 no matter how hot it gets.

I used all of these tricks and I have no reservations about driving anywhere at anytime.

 

The solid Caddy fans are the bomb... used those on stock cars with a shround and I was one of the few without overheating issues. I'm not a fan of electric fans myself. I can see in limited space applications as a last resort, but the OP has a lot of options.

Bob

 

Fan shroud like 57Joe suggests. A shroud will work better than electric fans.

 

Thanks guys!

To answer some questions-

Mr.Forty-

Thank you! My wife's due date is today to have our second child- so I am not allowed to play in the garage until after the baby comes- but after, I might just take you up on that!

- I like the idea about the restrictor plate- I am going to check that out- Thanks Dons HotRods

- Never thought of adding louvers in the engine compartment inner fenders - I like that idea - Thank you Tom Kat39

- Definitely will be wrapping the headers as well- Thanks KptKaos

- Forgot to mention earlier- all ready running water wetter with a 50/50 mix

- I also thought initially to back off the timing, but when I spoke to the guy who built my motor for me (family friend, guy is 85 years old and used to build FEs for drag boats for a living back in the 70's) he told me to advance the timing more?

- Brakes are working great- so thankfully no problems with the fluid boiling!

Thank you everyone for all of the input- I agree with everyone- I need to make a way to fit a puller, and I need to figure out how to vent the hot air out-

Like I said earlier- as of today, no big projects in the garage until after the baby- but Im going to implement some of these ideas and Ill let you all know how it works out!

Brent

 

Louvers, if you don't like them in the hood then the inner fenderwells is a start or remove the inner fenderwells completely.

Wrap the headers, wrapping the headers in this situation will make all the difference in the world.

I would loose the pusher fan all together, find the slimmest puller fans that you can and scoot the radiator forward if you have to.

Make sure that any and all cooling air that comes through the front of the car passes through the radiator, donot let the air pass around the radiator at all.

 

Quick test for an ambient air cure, take the hood off and go for a ride, study its habits.

Bob

 

It's not a 428CJ but they have been putting FEs in 56 Fords for many many years without electric fans. I'm using a stock 312 radiator with a stock fan. It never heated up idling in the garage, we will see. No shroud, no electric fans and no special fans. Mechanical fan on a stock water pump. I wanted the 60s look and not the 2012 look. Mine was a 6 Cyl so the gravel pan did not need to be cut to run the radiator farther forward. 3/4" clearance with a spacer and no ugly electric fans. I almost bought an aluminum radiator but I was able to find a stock V8 radiator. I run a 180 thermostat and no wives tales.

 

I agree with the comments on the mechancal fan. I prefer a mechanical fan with a fan clutch if it will fit, without a clutch if you have to. Problem is always clearance.

Put a big cam in a big motor with headers and you gotta get the heat transferred out.

 

Try looking at a triple pass radiator, it worked for me running a/c. The car with a3 row radiator would get to 210. After the swap to a 4 row triple pass copper/brass radiator (U.S. Radiator) the car runs at 180 with the a/c on when it's 90 outside. With the a/c off, it runs at 160. I have a mechanical flex fan with a shroud.

BTW, it was a direct-fit replacement for the stock radiator.

 

I'd have to agree that the pusher fan is half the issue as it probably isn't moving enough air when the car is standing still. I'm another of those who will run a good mechanical fan rather than an electric fan if it's at all possible. And I'd agree that a fan off something like the Cadillac that was suggested would be better than most of the aftermarket fans. I've run a number of aftermarket fans and always have trouble with the blades cracking after a period of time.

Still I have to wonder if the thing is actually getting hot or if you may be just a bit too anal about seeing the temp gauge rise a few degrees at a stop light and then drop right back down again when the car gets moving. We seem to be getting a lot of guys who drove with no gauges for years on end relying on idiot lights in their dailies and now that they have gauges they panic when they see the engine temp rise a few degrees but still not be up in a trouble area.

With the big engine and headers you will have an excess of under hood heat, that is a given but unless the mastercylinder is in very close proximity to the header or you are having other issues related to underhood heat it is probably not an issue but it may be related to the airflow at low speed or no speed issue. If you open the hood on your daily driver late model work car and get hit with a blast of hot air after a 20 mile run you think nothing of it but because you have a hot rod you don't expect to get hit with a blast of hot air when you open the hood on the 56?

 

t
Well if the temp was rising but stabilizing I would be ok with that....unfortunately if I let the car sit and idle for more then a few minutes....well let's just I shut her down at 230 and the temp was still rising...

As far as the hot air when I open the hood I'm going to get a BBQ thermometer and set it on the intake manifold of my 56 then put in my 67 gt500 t and compare the temps...but as I have been around hot rods all my life I definitely feel like it is warmer then normal when I open the hood.....that being said I'm curious to see what the temperature gauge says....

Just eyeballing it this morning I'm thinking that I can move the radiator forwards r another two inches without hitting the hood hinge....then if I have a custom shroud built and offset the fan so the deepest part is offset to side of waterpump pulley...I should be able to make this work....

I've also been looking at motorcycle fans and have found some pretty powerful 3.5 inch fans I could stick in the heater tube that vents ro the outside of the car to try and pull some of the hot air out.....no idea if it will work but I've tried crazier things in my life to solve a problem!

 

Sorry for the typos on my iPod in the hospital...wife just started labor

 

Swap to this fan setup: http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/cooling-articles/482048-junkyard-upgrade-dual-electric-fans.html You will notice the water pump hub centers between the two fans,as for size it's a good fit.1949-56 Ford cars can use 1967-69 Mustang radiators as a bolt-in replacement a fair amount of the guys in our group http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=332 have done the swap.

 

Good wishes to you, your wife, and the new little one. Don't let your wife catch you playing on the HAMB while she is in labor or you will be in BIG trouble.

Don

 

I'm with trying the mechanical fun,...Thinking is that those "run" whenever the engine is,...so air is constantly moving under there.
Also, 54 thru 56 Ford pass cars and wagons had a 2 piece sheet matal "pan" that attatched under the K member between the frame rails, and fitted around the forward part of the oil pan. The was to prevent the air flowing under car air from being drawn up right behind the radiator. When that happened, air flow thru the radiator was impaired enough to let things heat up more. All those bits and pieces of seemingly useless sheet metal actually had a functional purpose.
4TTRUK

 

Well I picked up a mechanical fan and shroud- now just trying to make everything fit!
The shop where I picked up the electric fan, was also kind enough to let me exchange the electric fan I had for a differenet one to try and make everything work together...

Im going to install a switch under the dash, so I can flip off the electric fan when I get off on the freeway-

I am also going to try just running it initially with the electric fan off all together and see if I can just rip it back out.

 

Well just a little update-

Got the mechanical fan on, fabricated a shroud, and have the electric fan mounted up front with a switch so I can turn it on if needed....

Running MUCH cooler now- most of the time right at 180 but if warm outside will creep up to 210-215 in traffic- so far have not even had to use the electric fan

I also drilled out the baffle in the heater tube so cold air is always blowing in

Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

Glad to see things working out for ya, if the car looks half as good as the engine bay you're cruising in style!

 

I had a Griffin rad with a spal pusher fan in my 56 (5.0l with cam and heads, headers etc) and it cooled in 100* heat in south Louisiana. I know a pusher fan is not as efficient as a puller but they can still work if you have no room. I'm glad you were able to fit a mechanical fan. The shroud does make a big difference as well.

Here was with my Griffin rad.


I plan on installing a 460 soon so I upgraded to a larger radiator and moved it ahead some for extra room.


I know some people like different "styles" of cars and that is cool. I like the old look outside and improved on the inside.

 

A copper radiator has an "R" value which is about half of aluminum. Copper cools better.
Thermostats are for warming the engine. The thermostats are for warming the coolant for the heater in the cab. You want high coolant flow with no restrictions.

When I see an aluminum radiator, I think the owner is a cheap scape and probably knows nothing about heat transfer and reads too much advertising.

 

When ever I hear people say stuff like this it makes me think of old people living in the past that don't believe in technology and advancements in engineering. The tube shape, size and spacing has the biggest effect of cooling efficiency not what it is made of. I guess if your radiator was just a big copper vat you would be right but unfortunately it is made of tubes and solder which hampers the cooling transfer process. At the end of the day one is just as efficient as the other. The reason aluminum radiators came about was to reduce cost and weight. It had nothing to do with cooling properties.

 

I do not like copper radiators used with powerplants that have a high aluminum content. The cooling system can to easly become a battery.