on the hot heads website www.hothemiheads.com the have the 331 to GM manual conversion... what gm ****** are they talking about? wondering how availible a GM manual would be? or what it was... that kits like 300 or so... and the ****** would be aprox ??? Just trying to figure out the route im gonna take, i would love a gm 4 speed... so i can compete with rock box at the drags in the spring time is tickin... TUck
The common GM manual ******s were Saginaw 3 and 4 speeds, and the Muncie 4 speeds. Good ******s, you can get a Saginaw in good condition for a couple hundred bucks at most....Muncies cost more, and are lighter (aluminum case). Both work well behind V8 engines and should live if treated right!
FAT- i emailed hotheads for the low down.... i wana make sure i have the total cost down before i buy it and then realize I need a 1500 ****** to bolt behind it... What did the 4 speeds come in? where would I look or search in the junk yards? anything to keep an eye out for... Is that what came in a 67GTO behind the 400? thanks for all the info~ TUcko
The Saginaw and Muncie ******s came in evry type of GM car and light truck from the mid 60s to the early 80s. All your Chevelles, Novas, Camaros and their corporate cousins used them. Som cars used T-10 ******s, but most used the Saginaw or Muncie units. You'll even find them in smaller cars like Monzas and such! They are about as cheap and plentiful as TH350 auto ******s are...you shouldn't have any trouble locating one for real cheap or free! Most gearheads go for the lighter, more performance-oriented Muncie, but the cast iron Saginaw four speeds are tough enough, and shifters will interchange as I recall. I'm sure that someone here on the HAMB has an old Saginaw laying around that you can score cheap!
Don't forget a bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, pedal ***y and some way to accuate the clutch. I kinda like the automatic deal better. I know it was almost a grand for the parts, but you can blow up a bunch of TH-350s for the price of all the manual stuff. I know, I know, REAL hot rods have three pedals...bla, bla, bla, but the last manual ****** I drove was fun for about 10 minuets then the novelty wore off. After that, it was pretty much ****in'. Maybe I'm just a wuss. Maybe I have an underdeveloped clutch leg or somthin'? Either way, that hemi needs to see the street. And soon. Good luck, -Abone.
Only difference between chevy and poncho manual ******s is the side the speedo cable attaches to. Last manual chevy 4 speed I bought was at U-pull-it. Was a wide ratio Saginaw and it cost me $25 plus a $10 core charge. I found it in a 1980 Pontiac sunbird with a 4 cylinder. Flamer....if anybody made an adapter to use ANY automatic ****** behind an extended bellhousing old mopar hemi without huge expense and mucho machine work to the engine block and/or the ****** case, we'd do it but nothin is on the market yet.
I don't have much info on Hemi to Chevy Manual trans.....The 354 Hemi I have is mated to a B&M Hydro-stick via a B&M trans adapter. My 331 in the 34 is mated to a LaSalle three speed with an adapter of unkown manufacturer. There are no markings on that one. I can't wait to throw that Hydro thru the gears......hell with clutch pedals.
Rocky. Oops, sorry bro. I thought Tuck was talking about a 1000 dollar adapter for a TH-350 a few days ago. Well, in that case, exercise your clutch leg and earn your man points. I know it's not the same, but I think Rod N' Custom had an article on the dude doin' extended bellhousing Nail head adapters. Not the same, but shows that anything is possible. Good luck guys, -Abone.
Tuck Can't find the guy that sells the hemi stuff here's phone number! but his name on the ebay is hbplys34. email him he may have a setup for ya. I bought my desoto trans adaptor from him. his name is hemi harold. I opted for an auto because my 35 truck is chopped channeled and sectioned. hahahahaha might have to chop my legs too we will see.
The Saginaws aren't as strong as a Muncie. The Saginaw is really a 3 speed with another gear added. I used to buy really cheap Saginaws out of the early Vega's.
Did you ever do this swap? I'm thinking about using a th350 or 400 in my 55 DeSoto. Anyone tried this setup?
Tuck, dont bother to email Hot Heads, Bob doesnt like to type. Call him up and he'll give you the low down. I am not running a 4 speed behind my hemi but I am running a th350. got the adapter from Hothead and it was perfect, no problems. Damn thing almost installed itself. He also sent me the starter part numbers and bolt lengths to use so I could have everything together in one night.
4 speed poor, broke too many, id go with the saginaw vega trans if you have to have ta have a 4 gear.the vega trans gear ratio is like a close ratio muncie,and generally gears are more available to find and cheaper. Had good luck with the super t10s but way too pricey
A very good chioce would be a BW ST-10 (Super T-10). They are stronger than the eariler T-10, and stronger than the Saginaw. They are similar to the Muncie, but as $$$$. They also use the big TH400-type of output yoke. The ST-10's were used in Vettes, 70-81 Z-28's, Nova SS's, etc. You could probably pick up a fully rebuilt ST-10 for around $700.
****... You should have said something.... If the Hemi isn't sold we'll figure something out.. I think you should stick with that baby lasalle olds ******....
Hey Tuck-o-matic, I have a 55 331 (short bell) that I'm collecting for the next project. I checked with an old Mopar guru friend who told me that if I get the crankshaft hub adaptor (for the flexplate) I can use the stock spacer plate that came with the Hemi auto trans and mate it to a late model torqueflite (727 I think) using a Dodge pickup starter. That's the low buck route. I'm still thinking of doing the same 4 speed swap you are. I've got a couple saginaws and a muncie. I was also thinking of saginaw 4 speed with overdrive. I have a couple 66-69 gm 3 speed overdrives that can be adapted to the saginaw 4 speed. Somebody on the H.A.M.B. posted the info to put the OD setup on the 4 speed case which I had, but lost over the years. I might go that route. Let me know what the rest of the stuff runs. Saginaw shift linkage for the good Hurst is available new and sometimes used. There are still lots of saginaw 4 speeds in Monzas, Starfires, Vegas Astra, Sunfires, 1973 and up for the small cars. The 71 72's used Opel transmissions. The older saginaws were in 65 up GM cars. overspray
Hot Heads sells one. Part # 25010 '51-'53 Chrysler to 727/518 Transmission Adapter. I think you just cut the bellhousing off of the ******, and bolt the adapter to the front of the pump with longer bolts. $450 includes hardware, spacer, and custom flexplate. JW Transmissions in Fl makes an "Ultrabell" that does the same thing....I'm not 100% that they have an extended bellhousing application, but I think they do.
He won't need another bellhousing. the GM trans bolts right up to that, and it right up to the Hemi. But yea, hydro throw-out bearing or hydro cyl is probably the easiest way to go.
Here's how I got a 3spd Chev behind mine... Here are a coupla pics. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64648
WHAT THE HELL this post was from 2003? BLEED im running a olds lasalle trans with a offy adapter PERIOD haha weird... End of story. Tuck
It's been a while since I done this, but there's a Saginaw M20 4 speed that came in (I believe) later (79-81?) Camaro & Z28's that have a 2.54 first gear.....then there's the one for 6cyls. that has a 3.11 first gear !.....talk about gettin' off the line Second gear is 2.20 like an M21 or Rockcrusher, so you can use 2nd as 1st for everyday driving and whip the 3.11 on somebody off the line. Kind of gives the old school feel of having a 3 speed for normal driving with a super low first gear in reserve, especially quick if you've got about a 3.55 rear, which makes about 2800 on the highway @ 70 if I remember right, 3.70's spin it a little over 3K @ 70, so it starts getting a little intense there, but the 3.11 ****** works good to over ride the most plentiful high ratio banjo's which most people have laying around, it makes them useable, actually kind of desireable and useable since your highway rpm's stay low. Saginaws are iron and have the reverse lever on the sidecase. They're not the toughest trans out there if you're doin hole shots all day, but they work fine if you don't try to kill them. I drove the hell out of one everyday for 3 years and never had a problem. Good luck.
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