first off, if you want all the back story check this out http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=700279 the short version is I just got the new ****** in my ride and went for a prolonged test drive (little over an hour each way to a cruize in). my experience with clutches to now has been put the stuff from the clutch kit in hook everthing up and it works (except for an OT isuzu amigo--but we won't go there) 48 chevy, camaro sub, caddy 390, wilcap adapter, mustang v -8 vintage t-5 and external pusher slave and braket (from a mustang t-5 swap kit). on the preliminary test runs around the neighborhood everything seemed to work ok. it was hard going into reverse and seemed to not fully dissengage to adjusted the rod on the slave to give it little more throw and that problem solved. so here's my questions 1) the minor whistling I had before that it was pretty much diagnosed a throw-out bearing has not become major whistling--pretty much all the time. can i just deal with it or do I need to **** it up and change the bearing? (I know the answer, I just don't want to hear it because I have to drop the front cliip and pull the motor to do this) 2) more problematic, though, is this. When engaging the clutch in first gear I frequenlty (not all the time, but frequently) get a nasty shudder. When it happens, if I can manage to get the car rolling at a decent clip (ie hill or the like), then let the pedal out it engages smoothly. If I start the car in second gear these issues don't arise. I can start in second most of the time, but I live in a hilly area so that's not really a solution to the problem. Anybody out there with more clutch knowledge than me care to share your thoughts/experiences. Thanks
i feel for you, i just pulled the ****** for a clutch problem and it is a big pain. wonder if the shudder could be the pilot bushing? well when you have it apart it's the time to find out. mixing and matching parts like that makes it a little tougher to figure out. but i bet you get it when it's all apart. best of luck!
Did the hydraulic donor system come with a damper? That's the first thing I'd look at to help with the shudder. Too bad about the TO bearing. Was it new or used? I'm not huge on using old ones especially if the installation is an ordeal. Bob
Clutch chatter is caused by several things-warped disc, dirty or oily disc, hard spots on the flywheel or clutch plate, loose motor mounts just to name a few. Even oily fingerprints on the disc can do it. If it's oil or dirt, put it in High and ride the clutch a bit to heat it up. Don't overdo it or you will wreck the whole works!
thansk for the comments guys. no damper on the hydraluic system. it's a TCI pedal ***embly to the speedway style pusher slave pretty straight forward. I wondered if the issue might be with the flywheel. it was new so I didn't have it surfaced. as for the TO bearing, it was a new unit that 2 hours of drive time on it (previous break in run). i figured that didn't merrit replacement. oops. still looking for additionl thoughts. thanks guys.
My F-1 with flathead/T-5 combo has the exact same issue.....chatters bad in 1st and reverse. I even pulled it apart and replaced ALL clutch parts with new. No change. I'm thinking it might be the cheap aftermarket disc.... What size clutch are you running, 10"? Diaphragm or long style?
2) more problematic, though, is this. When engaging the clutch in first gear I frequenlty (not all the time, but frequently) get a nasty shudder. When it happens, if I can manage to get the car rolling at a decent clip (ie hill or the like), then let the pedal out it engages smoothly. If I start the car in second gear these issues don't arise. I can start in second most of the time, but I live in a hilly area so that's not really a solution to the problem. Intermittent clutch chatter ?? They usually do or don't. I'd be looking for a small leak onto the disc.
HMMMM. I'm running an autozone 10 inch (if I rembmer correctly)truck clutch kit rather than the mustang/capri version. I figured it was heavier duty and it was cheaper . as for intermittent, it didn't do it on the first test drive, but has pretty much every drive since then. any more thoughts on possible flywheel issues causing this?
OK which is it - “ not all the time but frequently" as your first post or its ****ed up all the time like this post. Either you glazed it or it got wet . Establish your free play first, sounds like you are riding the T.O. bearing. If you can't get full disengagement with proper free play you'll need to re-engineer the set up. That's probably what glazed it in the first place. OK got that worked out - pull the disc out fix it or replace it and have the flywheel surfaced. Must haves : Proper free play at the top Full disengaged at the bottom. Left foot controls everything in-between
....... the semi-late model slave setups bolted through the bell?, are they the zero freeplay type? I don't know
From the other thread. Adjusting the rod length to get more throw on the bottom is fine as long as it doesn't encroach on the free play. If you've decreased free play you'll have problems. The squeek / whistle is the throw out bearing and there should be clearance between it and the fingers with your foot off the pedal. Falcon, hopefully you did something with the problem you saw that's stated above
What I was trying to say, is that I thought some of the slaves that bolt into, or through the bell, don't have any way to adjust any freeplay at the TOB?..and that they are designed that way, where the bearing does tickle the pressure plate all the time?
Well from the first post on the other thread it sounds like there is plenty of adjustment to get into trouble with and it sounds like it won't stay put too boot.
Another thing you want to check is the Marcel of the disc http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/clutch.htm Is some good reading. Google clutch Marcel for more.
31 vicky. thanks for all the comments and guidance. I'll send some pics once I get it apart again--maybe before to so you can see the slave set up. that last link gave lots of pause for thought. I plan to pull the set-up and surgace the flywheel, and I may go ahead and buy a whole new clutch kit. to answer some of your ealier questions. 1) I've only driven the car 4 times since the new install (post ****** install #2). 1st round the block--no problems, but needed to adjust the trow ont the slave. 2nd drive started out fine. but then had some chattering, went away, then returned. drive 3 and 4 were the road trip to and from. chattered in first on all that trip, but nowhere else. on the last install I ***umed the adjustment on the throw had backed off, but that was not the case. it was right where I set it after trial run #1. what is the proper "free play" is there a standard or do I need to find specs for this trans? define "glazed it" for me. just want to make sure we're all speaking the same language here thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
what is the proper "free play" is there a standard or do I need to find specs for this trans? You want about 3/4"-1" movement on the clutch pedal foot pad before anything starts moving. There should be a return spring for the pedal itself that holds it against its upper stop. The rod from the pedal to the clutch master should have a small amount of clearance. The clutch fork return spring should retract the bearing off the fingers for a small amount of clearance. The slave should be held tightly between its mount and the fork; usually a spring does that. The first 3/4-1" of pedal movement is just taking up the clearance that is imperative to good clutch operation. define "glazed it" for me. just want to make sure we're all speaking the same language here The surface of the clutch disc has been polished smooth or the leading edges of the Marcel have been polished smooth. The hot spots you see on the flywheel and pressure plate are tell tail signs that this has happened. That comes from riding the clutch, sitting at light in gear without proper and full disengagement, overpowering the clutch, improper free play adjustment, or my personal pet peave, holding the vehicle on a hill with the clutch alone. OK so what happens when you set the free play and can't get full disengagement, you need more stroke. That don't come from making the slave adjustment and taking up the free play !! First be sure the parts are not worn. Linkage holes, rods, pivot balls fingers and forks can all wear. You can get more stroke by using different size bores in master and slave, changing pivot locations, being sure the master is getting a full stroke. Most of the time that will increase your pedal effort. Remember the must haves: Proper free play at the top fully disengaged at the bottom. Left foot controls what's in-between.
Here's something to try, quick, easy and free. Hook a big extension spring from the clutch fork to any convenient point on the ch***is. This will tell you if you have a dampening issue. It is more pronounced in 1st gear due to the gear reduction which makes it worse. I've seen it worse in cars in reverse, a greater gear reduction there. I'd hate to see you pull it apart and start throwing parts at it. Bob
I'll ask a few dumb questions (dont ask me why I'm asking these!): 1. Are you positive that you installed the clutch disk facing the right direction? 2. Are you sure you installed the release bearing properly on the clutch fork? With the spring completely WITHIN the recess? 3. ****** mount bolted in tight and in good condition?
1) relatively, but I guess anything is possible at this point. 2) yes 3) yes and new. bob--will give that a try before I blow it apart thanks for suggestion.
I got confidence that you do know what you're doing. Just that you've run into an issue that puts everything over the threshold of clutch chatter. And a mix of parts ain't helpin' to sort it out. Bob
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