History So when did the gasser noses drop down

Blownhemi48, George had a lot of cars. I didn't (and should have) specified rectangular tube, but didn't. But I'm looking at a picture of the Malco Mustang g***er, with a flip up body and flip forward nose, and that is a tube ch***is car.
But being correct about details was not the purpose of my post, building your car the way you want it, not by some arbitrary dictates of people on this fourm who may or may not know their *** from a hole in the ground, was.
My point was, if I didn't make it clear enough, that not all cars had a nose high at***ude, so the guy ought to build it the way that makes him happy.
So you read what, exactly, into my post that got your ******* in a wad?

 

Fred Hurst put the Barracuda body on the ch***is of his Willys g***er.

I have personally handled all the bits/pieces of that very car. It is in the hands of Fred's crew chief as a halted restoration project.

 

in the 60's when I started to go to the drags most g***ers had a stock stance everything from 301" 4 speed Skoda,39/40 Fords to straight axle corvettes and Hemi Cudas even nose down depending on the size of the rear slicks as the tires got taller and wider late 60's early 70's

 

Thanks Bob. I had seen the car a few years ago when the WOW was at McCormick place and wondered about that. Still a nice car.

 

bobwop are your sure? I was told the ch***ie under the barracuda is from AL Peifers Willys.

 

built mine 65-67
5.38 olds summers axle&spool
327tunnel2x4 660s
rhs iron heads
recent best 350th from Mikes transmissions

incar gopro on youtube at
a30g***er

***le>Model A vs Henry J Eagle Field 2012

 

I am looking at throwing my hat into this AA/GS ring using one of my gl*** Henry j bodies,Where do you get all the rules at so you don't run into problems when the car is done?Just can't seem to get big motors,blowers and great wheel stands outta my mind,the more races I attend the more it's draggin me in.When you go to Thompson,mcir,42 and even headin to Indy this week to watch Bones,Rocky,Dave cobb and alot more race at the U.S.nationals,The popularity of the g***ers Low and High appears to be growing and the fun level is flat-out over the top.

 

Hmmm, that is news to me.

I am friends with the current owner of the project and have personally met with Jim, the crew chief. All discussion suggested the body was simply installed over the ch***is of Fred's Willys.

We even learned from Jim how the body was mounted. That was one of the final pieces of the puzzle to continuing with the restoration.

But I could be wrong

 

Well I own Al Peifers 33 Willys and just recently I contacted ,(sorry drawin a blank here) that built both the 33 and the 40-41 with Al and he said the frame under Al's Willys now, is not the orginal one cause the real one went under Freds car.
Some years back when the reunion was in Columbus (1yr) there was a barracuda project there in primer, new plastic windows with the paper on it and that person said the ch***is was from Al Peifers Willys which got my attention, but I don't recall who's barracuda project he was restoring

 

I'd say get yourself a copy of the rules from the year you want the car to appear as and a copy of the current rules. Build the car's appearence per the early rules but build the safety features per the current rules. Keep in mind that when you build the safety features you'll need to know how fast the car will go. A car that goes 12's has a different set of safety rules that a car that goes 10.90.

 

Ok,Thanks!

 

The Malco g***er with the flip up body and nose was a Maverick and was not built by George. He told me himself that he did not like that car. Sure you can build your car any way you want. But if you want to run with a particular group,you should build your car to their rules and not expect them to make exceptions for someone whose car doesn't fit in. I guess you missed my earlier post on this topic where I gave page numbers from Don Montgomery's g***er book with pictures of low to the ground g***ers from '62 and '63 . One was built by Chuck Finders who built more g***ers than just about anybody.

 

I hope you didn't take my "import" deal in my previous post as a slam. I kinda like the little English cars, own 2 Anglias myself.

Anyway, if you're picking an era to build too, the Anglias/Austins weren't allowed to run in the Gas Cl*** before 1963.

 

I was just kidding about the retro-ricer, big wing, etc. which is why I added a . And no worries about it being an import. My first love was an Anglia but I could not find one that I could afford when I was 18 and ended up wit the next best thing, an Austin.

I am leaning towards the late 60's early 70's like the Jim Oddy Austin as that is how I remember them at the strip. A slightly newer time period but I already have the '36 cabriolet that is from the '40's / '50's.

 

Larry I think that the clutch flight was the demise of the 4 speed hydro. But they were still running 4 speed hydros late into the '60s. I like them but they do pose a weight problem and once races started being one in less than 10s of a second weight became a real concern.

By the later '60s most of the nose high g***ers were pretty much running in the outlaw ranks, not they were not legal, just not compe***ive NHRA. The Nats were pretty much all being won by cars that were able to slip stream a little on the big end, catching a little less air underneath and pushing a little less air. I think that is one reason that the football Austin started to become popular with the big guys, it was a little more rounded off and with a mild chop would catch a whole lot less air than say a '33 Willys, or a tri five chebby sitting tall and purdy. Not that either of the latter didn't put on a good show, it was just that the time of being all over the track was dieing a****st the ranks of the go fast and bring home the money crowd. Handling was becomming the key to winning the big money at the big races. Stand up and cut a straight line was the name of the game. You can win with a lot less engine of you don't have to drive as far to get to the traps. Now take that perspective and add the power of a big engine and you are way ahead of the game. I started racing in the later '60s and I guess I was more influenced by the fellas that were interested in handling.

I am going to give this to the fellas that are still driving ill handling cars in the name of being "g***ers", the people in the stands would much rather see a car all over the place and the driver fighting it all the way to the big end as to see one that leaves, and just runs straight and smooth. Being a wrench instead of a driver I have had chance to watch the bleachers and the spectators. For comparison sake, in a car with a body, the car that runs a smooth 11 won't be remembered as much as a car that runs a wild 12. I have watched the spectators standing and screaming over a car that looks like it is going to climb the rail and yawn at a faster car that leaves and makes it to the big end without so much as a wiggle.

I think that is where you really separate a go fast junky from a showman. The go fast junkies of the later '60s and after were bent on making one hook and fly and the showman were bent on making the spectators jump and scream. The go fast junkies were or are the ones knocking down the records, sad but true.

There is a place for both, we need showmen but we also have a need for speed. Granted a wrench will always want to make his driver get to the big end first regardless of what the spectators think about it.

 

To the original question.
As a former g***er racer, we ran a 4 speed in early days & ran nose up for (we thought) weight transfer. We were just copying everyone else. It was- "If it works for him......"
When the cars got quicker- everyone started running B&M Hydros. We ran a Hydro & dropped the nose like everyone else to keep the car more stable on the big end.
I remember the change in stance w/ the speed increase & trans upgrade- but it was a long time ago, I could be wrong, but I was there.

To add- I didn't run a Torqueflight trans until I ran a SS car in very early 70's- 63 Dodge Polara 413 Max Wedge/727 combo.

 

This is going to be O/T to this thread as well as the H.A.M.B. but is in responce to ******.

That is why Pro-Mod is so popular. Those cars can and do get wild, really wild. I've got to admit, I love the Top Fulers and the Funny Cars (hell I love 'em all) but I don't run to the stands when they come up. I figure that if I miss one there'll be another one just like it. But when the call goes out for the Pro-Mods stay outta my way 'cause I gotta get the best seat even though I don't usually sit when those go down a track.

Now I race too and I don't like too much excitement when I'm behind the wheel. But when I'm in the stands it sure is fun to watch a drag racer try to drive like a NASCAR driver.

So ****** can't be more right on this one.

 

...and the logical conclusion of this diversion from G***ers, is the fuel altered.

 

Yes, there were two Flathead cl***es,F/G,G/G,weight to ci difference. 6 Banger had a H/G cl*** of their on.
The main reason my tires were outside the fenders was I couldn't afford to narrow rear-end,and made it a little more stable on a Anglia. There were no wheelie bars at that time,roll bars were not required. Car had to be street drivable (what ever that met) You have to put your mind back in the 60's and what was being used at that time. To understand what a G***er was in that time you need to read at rule book of the time in question.
Couldn't run a Anglia ,because of wheelbase requirements, in 1961,but by 1965 that had changed.
We screwed with the rules as much as possible,a lot of times with no thought to safety. Just go fast!!! Guess this didn't help with the original question.
They came down when they realized there were better ways of getting bite.

 

Seems to me that most the opinions today are based on what each person has built. If they built a car with tires tucked in, or hanging out, then that person is gonna defend that car to the end. And the same goes for nose up or nose down. If your car has either it's correct, and you'll defend that stance to the end also. Tires tucked in were very common, but they were skinny tires tucked in.
I just don't understand why the term "g***er" creates so much argument and animosity whenever it's memtioned here.

 

You have answered your own question.

 

To get back to the question at hand, when racers started looking for more streamlined bodies, the nose came down also.

 

Maybe the best answer to the question is when did they go up? And how long did they stay that way in any other venue other then the street scene.

Example: this car would not look lifted at all if it were not for the fact that the bumper has been removed.

One trick that I learned from a friend of the old man's when it was still against the rules to lift one was to lower the rear. The thing to remember at least as far as the rules are concerned within the scope of the HAMB is that the rules stated that you could not lift one to gain a traction advantage but they didn't say that you could not drop the rear or raise the engine.

This is not to argue just food for thought.

 

Where or when was that rule ******? The rules stated that you could not lift the frontend more than a 24" centerline on the crank. If you look at a lot of the old nose high g***ers it shows that many of them pushed the rule so far that they actually dropped the engines in the frame to get the front even higher.

 

Wouldn't that be with the Ramchargers' High and Mighty?

 

I'll post the '64 Rules for gas coupe sedan, it may be hard to read depending on the resolution of your monitor. But it is page 10 under the body section the last sentence and I quote, "Bodies and or frames may not be raised to gain weight transfer to rear wheels."

You may also note that the NHRA also bold-ed this particular sentence, it was an important rule to them.

There was a rule change in '65 that allowed a lot of changes in the gas ranks including lifting and blocked off head lights etc. I see no reason to keep those rules on hand as I build "traditional" g***ers and not later than our cutoff date of 1964 as we have agreed many years ago.

In theses rules that I have posted you will also find the specific rules according to the NHRA governing your Anglia. They should be of special interest to you. I don't doubt that you already are aware of them but it is good reading none the less.

Here is something to mull over while you are at it. A stock model A or even a Deuce sat pretty high. We are accustomed to seeing then dropped right down in the dirt so he don't consider that as part of the equation. You see old cars in pictures from the old race tracks and they look like they have been lifted when in fact they are sitting factory with different wheels.

Something else to think about is that the big guys did push the limits on the rules. That's racin'. If you had enough pull you could even get a shock absorber company to say that your coil overs are stock replacement parts, that is how Ohio George pulled off the coil overs when they wouldn't let him run 'em.

 

Well, yes, but it took a couple years before it started to be common on Gas cl*** cars. And the H&M was an altered, not a g***er. The whole "jacked up g***er" thing was actually pretty short-lived. '61-'66. as soon as the wrinkle-wall tires hit, the writing was on the wall for the nose high look. Goodyear brought the wrinkle walls out in mid '64, there were photos in R&C of Garlits testing with them right after he got back from England, and he wasn't even the first guy to get them, as he had a deal with M&H for years. Goodyear actually caught M&H flat footed, and there was a brief period in late '64 where just about every T/F car that mattered was running Goodyears, even Garlits.

It took a while for those tires to trickle down to the g***ers, but if you look at the photo I posted of the KS Pittman car, that car debuted early in '66, you have to realize it probably took at least 3-4 months to build, so Chuck Finders was designing the ch***is for that car in mid '65,and it was designed around wrinkle wall tires.

Personally, I think the High & Mighty gets too much of the credit for sky high g***ers.
I would look more at OGM. He showed up at the '60 nats with his willys jacked up a MILE, and won. Prior to that, none of the name Gas cars were jacked up, and the H&M had already been retired by that point. To be sure, OGM was copying the H&M, but if you look at the time line, it looks like the other gas cl*** guys were copying OGM more than the H&M.

Kind of ironic when you think about it. The guy that gets "blamed" for the mile high g***ers extinction was probably responsible for them in the first place. The blame for the demise of the nose high g***er SHOULD go to Goodyear. Damn them for making a drag tire that actually worked worth a ****!

 

Amen, brother.
We had a '39 Ford sedan BG/S in the early sixties that had a stock I beam front axle. It went a lot faster after we got the nose down, mainly because you could keep your foot in it at the high end. Seems there was a little too much front end motion with it's nose in the air.

 

Doesn't answer nose up or down but gives a pretty accurate timeline of g***ers. From G***er Madness.

http://g***ermadness.com/Gas_Cl***es/index.htm


http://g***ermadness.com/Gas_Cl***es/chart.htm

 

I raced NHRA Modified Eliminator from 1972-1979. To avoid another poop storm I won't say what I ran. By 1972 nose high cars were no longer seen as tire & ch***is technology rendered them obsolete. Gas cl*** cars required no ft bumper & a push bar could replace the rear bumper.Racers had figured out that crowd pleasing wheelies wasted motion that could be better utilized to move the car forward.