I did a search without any luck for any experience people may have to compare the 2 oils. Sythetic oils are great, but will they prevent wear in a flat tappet engine as well as a conventional oil with zinc additive?
i generally run synthetics... tons of posts (with good info) on bob is the oil guy http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2027455
Correct me if I'm wrong, but synthetic or non-synthetic has nothing to do with it. You can add Zinc to either.
Here's a thought for ya... Engineers developed metalurgy and bearings for reciprocating engines that were compatible with the lubricants available at the time. Over the years, lubricants were refined, but until the advent of synthetic lubricants, they weren't really reinvented. Now, you have a choice between conventional oils, pretty much the best ever, still conforming to the original formulations that were compatible with the metalurgy and clearances in your engine, by design; OR, a chemist's attempt to replicate that performance, costing much more, having none of the metalurgy application of the original. Do you want to use the oil you KNOW, or the one that is wholly dependent on someone selling it to you? It has been my experience that there is little benefit from one oil brand to another, but there is tremendous benefit in paying attention to oil change intervals. When it boils right down to it, contaminated oil will fail you in extremes, and in wear prevention. Oil is contaminated when it is blackened by heat and gasoline contamination. I learned this from a mechanic that allowed me to ***ist with a full tear down on a 200k mile motor where he had changed the oil every 1500 miles. It was a recreational driver that saw many, many, amatuer drag racing p***es and cruised relentlessly when the weather was nice. It was pampered, but never babied. We cleaned everything and reinstalled the original bearings on the crankshaft, found no discernable wear on the cams, pistons or cylinder walls. So he changed his oil twice as often. It still cost him less than synthetics...
I was using regular oil and adding the ZDDP additive. I have since switched to Mobil1 15W50 synthetic which has the zinc and phosphorus levels needed for the older flat-tappet engines. Note that only the 15W50 has the additives. -DV
Two cl***ifications you need to know which may or may not be on the motor oil label, whether 15W50 or not. 1) If the cl***ification of the oil is "CI-4" or "CJ-4" then the oil has the proper amount of zinc for a flat tappet cam. 2) If the label of the motor oil has a "star burst" on the label, put it back on the shelf. This motor oil is for todays roller valve train engines which has much less ZDDP.... Just my opinion, I am not a fan of synthetic motor oil.... Interesting, we never consider the "Ash Content" in motor oil, which is ZERO in the airplane industry.... Ummmm......
Actually the Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W30, 10W30, and 10W40 have high enough levels of both Zinc and Phosphorus for flat tappet cams as well. The levels are higher than many of the so called "good" oils of days gone by.
This is true. This is interesting. Good informative link. I ran Brad Penn oil in my hydraulic flat tappet build, but now that I am running a full roller set up I run Mobil 1.
We run synthetic in everything we own. As soon as we bought my car we switched it. My parents run synthetic in their vehicles. Honestly, does the type of oil you use actually matter when it comes to performance? I guess I wouldn't think so, it's more for me knowing that it last longer, and that my dad who has been building engines since he could walk, chooses it for his vehicle. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. I'll shell out the extra bucks, if it's gonna make my oil changes less frequent, and keep my engine running smoothly!
As has been pointed out, its not an "either or". That having been said, I would not use synthetic for flat tappet cam break-in. Crane has advised against it for decades, and really, why would you? Oil needs to be changed immediately after flat-tappet cam break-in, and should be changed frequently until the engine is completely broken in, as well as closely monitering valve lash and frequent visual valve train inspection, regardless of lifter type.
I now have enough miles on the engine in my 27 to be able to switch to synthetic and will probably go with Mobil 1. I ran it years ago in the first engine in the car and when I switched I noticed the coolant temp was 15-20 degrees cooler and the motor pulled harder. I figure if the new Vettes come off the ***embly line with synthetic there must be some good reasons to use it. From what I have heard, one advantage to synthetic vs crude based is that every batch is consistently the same as the one before it. With crude the properties can vary, I guess because crude relies on how many dead dinosaurs and rotted plants contributed to that particular batch. I have heard that synthetic has the downside of seeping past seals a little easier, and that has me concerned because my engine has a rear seal issue I haven't been able to cure yet. Don
Myth: Mobil 1 synthetic oils will leak out of the seals of older cars. Reality: Mobil 1 oils do not cause leaks. In fact, new Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil was tested in dozens of industry standard and original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) tests to prove its seal performance. It is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which all automotive seals and gaskets are made. If an older engine is in good condition and does not have oil leaks, Mobil 1 oils provide the same advantages as when used in a new engine. E**onMobil recommends taking measures to repair the leaks, then using a Mobil 1 oil. E**onMobil also recommends following the automobile manufacturer's manual for the proper oil to use.
In my 06 SuperDuty 4x4 which has the 5.4 and the Tq shift trans and is my tow vehicle, I run Mobil 1 SuperSYn. I get 13.22 mpg with 4:10 axles. In my past vehicles I ran Catrol syntec. My 87 crown vics Odometer broke at 365000 miles, I ran her for another year. She towed a 27 ft airstream all over with a family of 6 inside. and original AOD when donated to goodwill. She is still running today in Medina Ohio. My 15 to 1 race engine, I run 30 hd castrol. And my hotrod 40 over 350 I run 10w40 castrol. As for whats best. I think Mobile 1 is today, the reason I say this is, Chevy has all aluminum engines and GM put out a challenge for the best oil for their cars. Moibil 1 met and beat the challenge, and SFI ratings for oil was forever changed. The new standard is "DEXOS" and ILSAC G05. Mobil 1 is the very best today. All lab tests back it, even against Royal Purple and that other one that lasts a year? I have never added Zinc, Although many engine builders sell a High zinc Pennzoil, you can only get from better builders. I remeber the little metal pellets back in the early 70's people where putting in their gas tanks, and blowing up engines miles later.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one HR. Mobil/E**on themselves will tell you that it is possible to experience some leakage in an engine with miles on it when using Mobil 1. The key thing here is that they are talking "older" as in miles not necessarily age. They are also saying that it is possible, not definite.
I've been running Castrol, GTX, 20-50 and a bottle of Lucas Oil Stablizer in my Stude Lark for over 95,000 miles without problem. These engines have mechanical lifters, so any wear problems will show up quickly. This is my daily driver car, sits in the driveway every night, awaiting the next days trek. Mike
Nowadays it costs about $20 to do an oil change. 200k/1500 = 133, that's $2666 for oil changes over the 200k mile life of an engine. I'll stick to the 4000 mile oil change interval and see how I do. Since it usually takes me 25 years to put that many miles on an engine, and I end up changing cars or engines for other reasons before then, I'll probably save money.
im no expert , but i did research for like a yr. & found an oil with ZDDP . i run a banger with inserts . i use valvoline 20/50 racing oil ! vr1 i think . speed shops have it !
I'm no oil expert, but the machine shop that rebuilt my motor suggested an oil that has at least 1200-1400 ppm Zinc and Phosphorous. It looks like those Extended Mileage oils only have 800-900 ppm. Hard to say how much is "enough". I've heard enough horror stories of premature flattening of the cam lobes that I wanted to err on the side of caution. -DV
Scottybaccus kinda got it a little backwards. Lubricants were blended for applications. For example you wouldn't run a motor oil in a steam cylinder sleeve valve found on steam locomotives nor would you use it in a hydraulic or turbine applications. Typically oil is blended to address the specific needs of where it is going to be used. The problem with the modern motor oils that meet API standards is the catalytic converters. The add packages used to reduce friction and wear have been based on Zink, Phosphorus and molybdenum which even though they provide great wear protection they also attack the precious metals used in the cats. The new API standards call for far less Zinc for that reason and the oil company's have blend their oils to meet the new API standards. So if you have a car that is equipped with catalytic converters do your home work before you rush out and get that ZDDP additive and put it in your engine.
I use Castrol in most of my Cars the older ones I put Lucas Break-in oil which has the Zink in it just my 3.5 cents
Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil in synthetic and non-synthetic has 1400 PPM of Zinc and 1300 PPM of phosphorous which is about the highest levels of any over the counter oil you can buy.
As this saga continues on........ I only run synthetics and in everything I own from weedwackers, two race cars (800 hp+), diesel tow trucks, wheel bearings, ******'s, rear ends, air compressors, etc, etc. 15+ yrs and counting..... No issues, much better wear protection, less heat, much longer change intervals, etc, etc. Will not run conventional dinosaur oil ever again as times have changed.....
Here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. I transport alot of vehicles for Hambers, I have 2 trucks both with 350 chevy motors, 1 flat tappet, 1 roller cam. I use 5w30 castrol edge synthetic in both. I extend my oil changes to 15-17k per change. Roller motor went 432,000 miles & still ran great with no oil consumption when I changed it. The older flat tappet motor has well over 200,000 with no oil consumption, 99% of these miles are pulling the trailer all over the country. I am sold on Castrol synthetic.
Meant to say the HIGH Mileage and they have 1000-1100 which according to the Mobil 1 guys should be more than adequate
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