Hi all, I have a slew of questions on these. To start, what kind of hp/torque can they take? Enough for a blown flattie with a whopping 300hp? What is there to look for and what to avoid to get a good tranny? Approximate cost to get a decnt one? thanks, Doug
I had one behide a 300hp 327 for years. Never had any problems with it. I was running 4.56 gears in back. Did over 100k that way. To me the weak spot was the over-running clutch drum. I would look at that first to see if the drum was indented. If you want to assemble one,you need to put a rubber band arround the rollers so you can get the clutch to assemble. The rubber band does not survive this use.
I'd mod'ed the O/D unit off an '60s Ford 3 speed to mount up behind my TH400. Resplined a Caddy TH400 shaft to fit it all together. I'm running right at 500hp out of a 383 stroker in a '58 Chevy truck. All works well, except. I keep going through the electric solenoids. I'm on my second and it doesn't work as of a few weeks ago. On top of that I don't have a line on them. I saw one on eRipoff the other day that had 1 bid at $100. Screw that. I seem to remember some place up in PA that would rebuild the solenoid but not sure where or how much. I need to find this so if anyone knows PM me!!!!
Thanks for the info all. This tells me I can get away with one for the HP I may have. What kind of prices are out there on these? Any web pages with more info on the? I can't find much out there... thanks, Doug
I'm gonna BTT this one, because I'd like to find this info out as well. I've got a Ford T-85 based 3spd O.D., with the solenoid. An unknown GM 3spd OD with solenoid (I do know it's post '57, but past that, nuthin--but I haven't bothered to research it at all). I heard there's a "good" version of these--anyone know? A Mopar A-833 4spd OD--this trans is based on the A-833 4spd. To make it an OD, they ran the 1:1 Fourth Gear as 3rd, and then ran the normal 3rd gear cluster as 4th, making it an overdriven ratio. Weak link on these is that where the shaft fits into the recess in the case, it's an aluminum case, and they tend to wallow out with hard use. The fix is to bore the recess in the case and insert a steel bushing. Or maybe bronze? Anyway, there's a fix a lot of Mopar guys know about. Finally, have a line on the GM version of the Mopar A-833 OD--Chevy bought them from Chrysler to use in GM trucks (I think it was in trucks--that's where I've always heard of them). Benefit is that it's a GM bolt pattern and input shaft spline count. Anyone have ANY info on these things? -Brad
Up until the 70's all the overdrive units were made by borg-warner and there were only 2 basic models. there were tons of different housings to make them work on different trannies, but still only 2 internal designs. the T-85 is a bad ass tranny. it will take everying your flat head could dream of putting out...in fact, the T-85 is what the super T-10 is based on. I blew up a few T-86 3-spd overdrive trannys, but it was always the cluster or sliders that blew, never the o.d. As far as the solenoids not working...what usually happens is that the seal falls apart and they fill with oil and don't work anymore, but usually after a good cleaing they work like a dream. You can get the seal from any autoparts store or from a studebaker parts place (its the same part)...or, you can go to the hardware store and get some really fat, O-rings with an i.d. that fits that solenoid shaft and an o.d. that fits the solenoid housing. Pull old seal out and stack two of those O-rings in there so that when you bolt it up, the O-rings compress and seal better. Also, those solenoids have a primitive type of fuseable like inside them that sometimes burns out. If thats the problem, you can pull the cover off the solenoid and replace the link with some regular wire. One time, my solenoid filled with oil and wouldn't work and I kept burning out o.d. fuses, so I got a big ass fuse (50 amps or something) and it burned out the link inside the solenoid. I popped it apart, soldered it up and it worked just fine. A quick test you can run is to spray a ton of electric motor cleaner into the vent/drain hole on the solenoid cover while its still on the car and then go drive it and see if it works... just a word of warning, if you end up using an old borg-warner overdrive unit, make sure to use non-hypoid gear oil in it. they have some brass or bronze parts that regular hypoid gear oil can ruin after a while. good luck jake
I'm running a stock '49 Merc 3-speed tranny w/OD in my '49 Merc. Blown 276 cu/in with about 265-270 HP. Have put about 8K on the unit the last 3 years since the blower install. Ran it without the blower with the same motor about 27K before that. Lost the synchros in the tranny 4 years ago along with the main shaft. Replaced all parts in tranny and started driving again. Lost the OD planetary because I failed to put oil in the OD unit when I had it off the tranny. Found one in a junk yard fo $35.00 and replaced internals with old housing, main shaft and used new bearings and seal. No problems since (knock-knock). If you use a Borg Warner unit make sure you fill both the tranny and the OD unit with oil!
I dont' know if you're familiar with the 70s Hone-O-Drive...it went behind the regular tranny with a ujoint between them. Anyways, I had one of these that I ran for about 8 years or so, then one day it went "crunch" and I got a tow home. The ring gear split in half. It was in my 59 ext cab pickup behind a 454 and Th400 at the time. The Hone is bigger inside than the BW unit... I'd be leary of trying to stuff too much torque thru an old overdrive, especially in an old Chevy truck! Also, i think the Chevy solenoids are sealed? while others can be opened up. I remember messing with a Chevy 3 speed w/bw overdrive about 25 years ago, the solenoid was bad, and Chevy wanted $40 for a new one (more than a full day's wages).
Wow--I've been looking for ANY info on these for a couple of years! This gets printed and put in my ring binder!! Is the T-86 basically a T-85 with a OD unit on it? Also, I've heard there is a "good" Ford OD trans and a less desirable one--can you shed any light on that? My friend said it, as he was told the one from his '57 Ranch wagon was the good one, and some guy wanted to buy it. Any idea where I can find casting number info and such? Thanks, -Brad
T-85 and T-86 are completely different transmissions. T-86s are really decent, smooth shifting trannies, but they won't stand up to much power at all. T-85s are tough as nails, like I said before. T-85s look a lot like T-10s externally and they have a casting number right on the side that says T-85. I don't know what all they came in other than fords and studes, but some had o.d. and some didn't. I don't know much about fords, but I'll bet the "good" one your friend was talking about is a T-86. As for the overdrive units themselves, they are pretty tough. True, they can't take a ton of torque, you shouldn't drag race in overdrive anyway... here's a schematic of a borg planetary overdrive, hope that helps a little squirrel, that hone-o-drive just sounds like a brownie box. did you have to run your speedo off of it instead of the tranny? jake
Yeah, it used a Ford type speedo gear and cable. It's a planetary overdrive, with a manaul shift. The main drawback is figuring out how to get it mounted so the driveline vibration all goes away. The second drawback is when it blows up.
these are about identical to an r-11 or r-10 if i remember right. either way, they both use the same solinoids as the stude FWIW. that might give you another set of search words or an idea. T
I forgot to add; The Ford 3 Speed Toploader trans w/OD (Not the toploader 4 speed turned into an OD unit) will likely have an R-10 behind it. Maybe someone can use this info.
I don't know what the hell my '56 Packard unit is, someone told me it's identical to a Ford unit built by Borg Warner. My engine puts out 265 hp and I've pushed it hard, the tranny's taken all the abuse it can get. The OD is really sweet, the engine revs really drop when I pull the Volkswagen emergency light blinker switch.
DJ; I talked to a guy that has had this modification done. That being; Ford Toploader 4 Speed with R-11 Borg Warner Overdrive. I happened to have a wide ratio 4 speed that I'm putting into a 32 Tudor Sedan, and the more I researched gear ratios and the fact that all I have is a 4 speed with a 1-1 4th speed, meant that if I wanted any sort of highway speed, I'd have to run something like a 3.54 rear end. Ie, NO acceleration of any sorts.... So, I thought about the possibility of an OD. Bottom line, DJ, is that all that's necessary is the 4 speed and the overdrive unit in it's entirety. Then an adapter has to be fabricated that becomes the rear bearing retainer and the mount for the OD unit. The adapter is really a piece of aluminum, approx 1" thick, with the 4 speed bolt pattern on one side and the OD pattern on the other. Other than that, the main shaft has to be shortened and resplined. I'll have more info as I get further into it Jim
GM (chevrolet) used two differant od trannys. one was using the 3 speed muncie (55-65) and the 3 spd saginaw (65 74). the sag was a better design, but poorer quality. The drawback of the muncie was the od oil would drain into the main case, leaving the od dry.
Here is a link to a Borg Warner R10 manual http://www.merc583.addr.com/misc/BW_OD_Info.pdf.zip Pete "blueskies" also has a lot of good information on a rebuild on his site. www.50plymouth.com More info on rebuilding http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/t85n/rebuild.htm
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245628 I'll see if I can find the link to put the 66-70 chevy OD unit behind the Saginaw 4 speed.
Maybe someone here can help me ... I just bought a T-85 and it has the wrong input shaft. I need the early Ford input - 10 spline, 1 3/8" inner diameter, and sticks out about 7". It's the 215/223 six and flathead/Y-block input shaft. It has 19 teeth inside the trans. Any O/D gurus willing to lend a hand? Please PM me.
I ain't an expert on these, but it seems to me the way out of this is use a different clutch disc that has the right spline for the trans input shaft you have.
http://www.classicjunkyard.com/new_process_a833.htm http://www.slantsix.org/articles/4-speeds/ODA833fourspeed1.htm http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/picture-4-speed-56525.html http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2005/03/01/hmn_feature17.html http://www.autohobbydigest.com/a-4spd.html http://www.68cuda.com/tranny.html
I wish it were that easy ... The input shaft that's in there now has to be at least an inch too short.
Gm also used an aluminum "Four Speed" transmision that actually had an overdrive in it. It looked like a "FAT" Muncie. (no solindoud, nothin else but gears) They were used in Vette's and aparantly some half ton truck from what I've heard. I've got one, maybe I could get the numbers off it if anyones interested.
Trucks used a New Process transmission in the late '70s/early '80s that looks like the same transmisison used in the Aspen/Volare cars of the same era. Mid '80s Corvettes used a "4+3" transmission that was basically a Super T-10 with a weak auxiliary transmission added to the tail; most of them had their share of troubles.
Had a '60s Chevy Stepvan that had a 3-sp with OD. I was going to make a cable-actuated mechanical shifter to get rid of the troublesome solenoid....got rid of the truck first, tho. .
I used to be a believer in the overdrives used behind the T-85's for years. Then I upped the power level and started breaking them regularly. Never had any trouble when the power was low-moderate, but I broke too many when I ran them hard. Sorry, but I don't have faith in them when you ask them for more.... I used to be a believer.
does anyone know if an R 10 borg warner will mate up properly with my stock '38 plymouth truck engine? someone once told me only an R-7 is compatible Thanks, Paul
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