I've got a new project and for once in my life i'm trying to think about it before i go down the rathole.... This truck is all original (flathead v-8, 4 spd) and has been sitting for a decade. I'm looking for feedback from builders, everyone i've talked to so far has a different opinion, i'm looking for a few more: Each of these two approaches (below) has its pros and cons (cost, reliability, performance, drivability, fun, etc.) and i am right on the fence. What do you think? Plan A: Called "Keep the Flathead and drop that axle" (traditional approach, but lots of money for flathead restoration, end result may be very similar to driving a 1950 farm truck) Plan B: Called "Fatman frontend, plus a Chevy 350/350" (maybe it's cheating, but i may get a lot more miles out of it and it could spend more of its next life on the highway rather than the driveway)
I drove my 51` F-1 for over 20 years with a dropped axle. Finally got smart and put a M-II front end. I drive my stuff every day, usually over 20K miles a year. Just the way I like it, to each his own..........OLDBEET
I left the suspension on mine stock except put on front disk brakes and changed the rear end, rides a bit rough but I like it anyways and wanted to keep the stock ride height since its a truck I put in a sbc 350/350 and drove it everyday since april the 20th til last thursday when I took off the insurance so I wouldn't be preoccupied with the truck since I have done absolutely nothing around the house since last year and I need to get stuff done and wood in before winter them are some nice front fenders you got there
If you rebuild the front end you will end up with a project that rides just like a truck. If you want a truck that rides like a car...something has got to get hot and fall off.
Both of the ideas make cool hotrods but to drive every day, I'd have to go with the MII front but Power would have to be either a 5.0 or 5.8 BLUE OVAL FORD!!!! Hang an AOD behind it with a 3.27 disc brake rear and B O O G I E !!
I'd like to stay old-school on my '51, but haven't come across a dropped axle. I've seen them advertised for f100's, but not for f1's. Will an f100 axle fit an f1? Jerry
A or B sounds good either way. Buuut, If you opt to spring for the MII setup, throw a Ford mill in there.
It doesn't have to be one plan or the other. It's okay to treat the drivetrain and ch***is separately. Keeping the flathead is a pricey proposition, particularly if you're looking for something with close to the starting point of SBC horsepower. The flathead will provide decent torque, however, but you'll have to run some tall final-drive gears (3.0-3.2) to take advantage of it on the highway. This dictates a rear-end change because the Dana-****er unit in place has very limited options. An early F-100 9-inch is a bolt-in change, so that's not a big or expensive upgrade. Learning to build, or even rebuild a flathead is like learning to fly an airplane; it's best done with good one-on-one mentoring and lots of side-by-side hands-on instruction before you solo. There is excellent information in most of the flathead books currenly available, but all of them together are not sufficient to ensure a successfule first-time build. If it would make you feel better about replacing the flathead with a SBC, you can do it without making any changes to the F-1 that can't be reversed with simple hand tools. The engine bay is generous enough to accept a 392 Hemi without moving any metal around. It's blessedly long because it was designed to accommodate an in-line six as well as the V8, resulting in a spacious cove in the firewall that is perfect for even a fat HEI distributor. A Hurst-style cradle motor mount, available from Speedway or from Vern Tardel, is a bolt-in deal. Use rams-horn manifolds for a simple exhaust system. A rear mount for the THM-350 trans represents about an hours worth of fabrication, and you can inexpensively control the trans with a Pinto shifter, or spend a buck-and-a-half on a Lokar or Genny shifter. Cap off the upper right and lower left hose bibs on the radiator metal "cups" and short sections of clamped hose. Finally, rewire the F-1 for 12 volts and you'll be good to go . . . no hacking or time-comsuming fabrication. And you can change it all back to flatheadedness some day -- like that will happen! Front suspension on the F-1 isn't nearly so bad as some will tell you. The most vocal advocates of Pinto front suspension on these trucks with whom I've talked have never driven one with the suspension and steering in good condition. These are the folks who will tell you it was **** even when new, never mind that they've never driven one in anything close to new and good condition. If you're looking for good stance rather than road-s****er "cool" you can realize a front drop of about three inches with flatter springs with reversed eyes. Be sure to add some caster wedges -- about 5 degrees works pretty well, and make sure all the spring bushing, tierod ends, and drag-link ends are fresh. And you will want to heat and bend the steering arm down to bring the drag link back to being parallel with the spring. If you do decide you need IFS, consider the Dodge scheme El Polacko advocates. Just some thoughts on your situation. Looks to be a decent truck and should prove to be a good foundation. Mike
like ian said, both sound like good plans, but you need to put a ford in your ford heres a pic of my project, its a 51 F-1, 302ci . c4 ******, 9" rear 3.50 gears mII front crossmember, air bags rear triangulated 4 link, custom step notch looks like you got yourself a solid starting point there
Thanks Mike, Excellent advice.... And Lodaddyo, That is a nice project you have going there, great pics. That shop is nice and roomy....maybe i need to get down gonzales way!!!
What AV8 said. He pretty much described the truck I'd like to build - if I can ever get the 31 up and running. Been a lot of delays in the last year. Back in Central California - moved from there last summer - a friend of mine sorta specialized in these trucks. I say sorta cuz the last couple of years he's been into A coupes, one like a late 50's era SBC, shiny red and lotsa accessories and the other straight from his 40's era high school. This coupe with a built 4 banger that was the fastest car in the high school and put many a V8 powered car down. Anyway, here's a pic of one of his F1's. This one with a good running flat 6 - he bought the truck new - and there's another in his big shop that is complete, bodywork, paint, suspension (stock) and waiting for the final touches to be done to the flathead V8. Course, he's gotta wade through the A coupes to get to it....
If you do decide to go for the independent front suspension, check out the Dodge Dakota set up that ElPolacko makes for those trucks. The track width is right, and it's a light truck suspension, rather than a p***enger car suspension. See the web site below: www.industrialch***isinc.com
I have a 390 and an M II in my 51 F1 I am working on. It already had an older 390 in it so I just rebuilt another one and put it back in there. I went with an M II from Jim Weimer http://www.jimweimerrodgarage.com/parts.asp It is a small company and most of the time you get Jim on the phone. He builds the crossmember specifically for F1's and mine I just bolted up where the bump stops were and welded it in. It was a piece of cake. He will also give you the option of 11" disks and heavier springs depending on moter weight, etc. I don't regret the decision. It did not cost me a whole lot more than going the drop axle route.
I built my 50 F-1 about 10 years ago. Kept the flathead/4 spd. and added a 3.00 9" rear for the highway. I should have rebuilt/replaced the steering gear, otherwise the truck handles fine. Disc brake kit would have also been nice but no faster that the flathead goes, the drums are fine, just be sure to set them up correctly. Be careful not to use tires that are too wide because steering effort is greatly effected by tire width. My 235/75r15 are WAY too wide. This whole setup works fine for my purposes. A sbc/350 is a nice combo but more power means more speed and that means suspension upgrades, steering, brakes. The while deal depends on what you really want to use your truck for and where you will most likely be driving it.
I'm building up a 52 F1 right now. Today I'm getting a camaro subframe put in it. It will be narrowed a few inches so the front tires will fit right. You can also go with a 78-81 Monte Carlo/Malibu which is 3 inches narrower than a 67-81 camaro. MII have smaller control arms and the whole setup is built for a lighter car. A camaro is a heavier car, so you can keep everything stock (they also make tubular control arms for them as well, which I plan to switch to eventually). For my rear I'm going with a Ford 9 inch with narrowed housing and leaf. I'm also going to be chopping it 3.5 inches as well. Have a look at a bunch of other trucks and decide what you don't like about them. I found the more I saw what I don't like resulted in what I wanted to build. My advice for you if you're building a driver is to look into doing a GM subframe. I have a TCI MII on my Model A and I drive it a lot but it rides very hard. Good luck with it. I know I've changed some of my intentions with it just from looking at other trucks. Nice front fenders by the way. Your truck is in pretty good shape.
Here's a link to a pic of my 48 F-1 w/ 72 Nova drum brake clip, Chev v-8, auto, etc. ....works great. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/rustytoo/48F-147ADbyCleary003.jpg
Well I chime in even though know one ever listens. Stock drop axles still ride like farm trucks I know I drove one for a couple years. MII is designed for a much small and lighter vehicle than an F 1 but people do love em. They seem a little pricey a swap to me. A camero needs the frame cut off and welded back together a little tricky if you have never done this before. I love the Volare clip its ajustable in hight the right width and from a car of similar weight and size. It is also straightforward and fairly easy to install. Oh and cheap I think I paid 125 for my clip and I have seen whole cars go for not much more. THese clips also came in a variety of cars up into the mid 80's. Its you bucket though build how you want all I know is I built my whole dam truck for what a MII setup will probably cost you Good Luck Fudge
Berkeley, eh? Glad to know we have another truck guy around. Ping justinm, you and he can discuss 49-50 Ford trucks. I'll always be partial to everything stock or old style, but since most of it is hidden with a full bodied ride, I guess it doesn't matter too much. But the 350/350 thing is just hard to hear when it comes to Ford, but I guess plenty of people do it. Congrats on the truck. Mike
What do you want to do with this truck? If you want to drive it a lot and enjoy it, do a suspension and engine swap. A flathead is still 1950 technology no matter how you look at it as well as the steering and suspension. If you are only going to drive it occasionally, then keep it as it is. The down side to this is , it will cost you as much or more to redo the flathead, dropped axle , upgrade the brake system, etc. If you are not a good fabricator, don't do a GM style sub-frame or the Volare. Some of the Volare rebuild parts aren't even available anymore. I would highly recommend calling El Polako about one of his front ends. They are much easier and cleaner to install than the other options listed here, as well as being a fellower HAMBer
Eroc, i used a rear axle from a 71 Malibu, it's the rite width using an 8 inch rim. I'm using the stock rear springs with all the short ones removed, kept the 5 long ones, axle under springs. Rides nice., truck practically drives itself, another pic...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/rustytoo/48F-147ADbyCleary004.jpg
great truck, i just put mine together last year and ill be putting the "rest" together later. unfortunatley for all u ford lovers, the only thing ford about it is the body... i dropped mine right onto a 88 chevy s-10 frame, easy as pie, frame actually fits the contours of the body, used the rear trailing arms from a 70 chevy fullsize, and tada, done, theres a few other things in there somewhere too... but u get the point. total build cost: bout 3000 pm me for more details if yud like
Jeff I'm thinking about building another truck and looking at the dead 88 S10 in my back yard I was wondering how well it would work when measuring though the wheel track is like 7" to narrow on he s10 would you do yours looks right oncan you post some more pics
Everyone, Thanks for all the input and ideas! I'm excited about this project, hauling it down to "the ranch" near Lompoc/Buellton area of California to begin tear down next month. Since I don't have the funds to do the Flathead right at this time, i'm going to save it for another project. For the frontend, I think i'm going to start with AV8's advice and if i'm not satisfied, go with the ElPolacko hub to hub. I had not heard of him before, it looks ideal, but again a bit pricey for me right now. The links and photos are inspiring, cannot wait to fire it up in the spring. I'll have plenty more questions coming up: re: monoleaf springs, brake kits, steering, etc, etc, etc,
My truck is all stock except for the shaved door handles and hub caps, and one piece door gl*** Check out this link; http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=123897&stc=1
I have driven both stock and "clipped" F-1's for 27 years now..........and I agree with the majority here on the board.......a truck will ride like a truck......unless it has a IFS on it....... I used an LTD clip on my F-1 and it is much too wide.......now that I'm in the final rebuilding process....I decided that El Polacko's Dakota front end is the best.....so it's getting redone that way now........The "LTD", really a Mercury Grand Marquis clip with 12 inch brakes, was way smooth with air bags....but Like I said ...it is much too wide for this year of Ford trucks... My truck...
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