So I finally finished installing my factory specs rebuild 54 235 engine. Its a 3 speed and its all og..I went to crank and no spark. So I replaced my points and condensor and while I was at it I replaced the coil. Its all 6v..My battery is brand new as well...so I used a spark tester and I have spark now on every wire. My 6 v battery is kinda lagging on turning the starter so I am using a 12 v ready to be disconnected in case it fires up.( Dont want it blowing up in my face or burning any 6v equipment) I checked my pump and its pumping fresh gas on my brand new tank. Its a brand new pump as well. The carb is stock rochester that I rebuilt very carefully. It has gas I can smell it in there and when I pull on the throttle I can hear it spraying...So I went to try it again and it sounds like it wants to start and then pufffff.....white looking smoke coming out of the carb..is that normal? As far as timimg I think its pretty close to tdc...I have the pointer on the bell housing pointing at the bearing on the fly wheel..When in that position I pulled the #1 spark plug and its at the very top..I checked my rotor and its pointing at the number 1 plug wire at the cap...What am I missing....Wanna get her back on the road. Its been parked for 25 years....What am I missing..Please help.. New parts include: cap,rotor,condensor,points,coil,plugs and wires,clutch,fuel pump,tank rebuild carb,turned flywheel,water pump,rebuild motor to factory specs, head was hot tanked and checked out for cracks and bad valves..
If I'm not mistaken you may be 180 off. Pull the valve cover and with the ball and pointer aligned see if you have valve clearance on 1 or 6 . The one with clearance will be the one that the rotor should be pointing at. Or pull #1 plug with finger over plug hole -crank till air blows by your finger then turn by hand until marks line up. Points should be just opening and rotor points to #1 plug wire.
I know nothing about Chevy six's but heres some ideas..... My bet is that somehow its out of time, I would follow the factory procedure for getting the motor to TDC on the compression stroke and make sure everything lines up. Following the instructions for valve adjustment would be ideal. I might also try dumping a little gas, or spraying a bit of starting fluid down the carb to see what happens, just don't overdo it and burn your eyebrows off
Ok when I originaly timed it the engine was out of the vehicle..I did not check my valves because I installed it as a complete engine and trans. I had originaly put it a tdc or the ball bearing on the flywell mark and check my #1 cylinder to see if it was at the very top which it was. Now that I checked it again I noticed that when on compression stroke the pointer lined up with the flywheel mark but now the rotor was pointing at the #6 cable which I figured that gives 180 degres off right and so I must have been at exhaust tdc before..Well I got exited thinking it would fire right up but nothing again..Well I have no pufff of white smoke out of the carb so thats a plus....Not sure what I need...carb smells like gas. I hear it spray. I re checked my supply gas line at the carb and believe me there is gas ...it shot out like a cannon...I also checked spark again with my spark tester....The bulb gloss up per spark plug wire...My points also have a bluish arc...At this point I feel like I cant do nothing right... I am to the point where I might wave the white flag and pray for a miracle..Car wont start and im out of beer!!!
When I first started my 235 had no idea what the ignition timing was. I just started cranking and rotated the distributor until it fired. Once it got close and fired I was able to time the old fashioned way by putting time in it until it rattled a little under load - then backed off a little. 14,400 miles later all is still great. If you got spark don't be afraid to really move the timing around. Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
Some Chevy sixes had harmonic balancers that would shift the outer portion relative to the crankshaft in the early stages of failure of the elastic portion of the ***embly. Your TDC mark on the balancer may be off relative to the crank. Quick check... Remove the valve cover. Rotate the engine until the intake and exhaust vale of #6 cyinder are on even rock, in other words exhaust is closing and intake is opening about same amount. This is approximate TDC for #! Does the harmonic balancer timing marks agree with that?
Well the head was just hot tanked and leak/crack tested oh yeah and milled a bit at the base so it could mat up on the block.. I never messed with the valves and left them as is... The machine guy said that they were good... Oh yeah the plugs are new..you think I should change them? They look like they got lil black sut on them sorta like black smoke would cause..Oh yeah and I cant figure out why they dont smell like gas after cranking for a bit...they smell like gas but are dry too the touch..
Ah!! You milled the head and did not adjust the valves !! Adjust the damm things as I'll bet you got some that are not closeing.
Timing mark is on the fly wheel. There is a view hole with a pointer above the starter. There is a "BB" on the fly wheel. When the BB lines up with the pointer, it should be #1 TDC.
Yeah bud..thats been done...maybe Johns right about the valves not closing....I never adjusted them even though my head was milled a bit..not sure on how to do it either..I will check on my chevy book see if things make sense.
Im going to try and adjust my valves as best I can..I checked my shop manual and the pics seem like rocket science to me. I will do it by putting the motor at top dead center, then I will mark my distributor at the number 1 cylinder and adjust so that there is minimal lash....I Hope this works....
We are ***uming that you did you pull the distributor out and turn the rotor 180 degrees so it pointed to number 1 and put it back in when you saw that it was 180 out. It's probably easiest to just bring each cylinder up on top compression to check and adjust the valves. It will take a little longer but be simpler in the long run. I'd also check the plugs to make sure that they were dry as John suggested. Read what he says and follow it as I have never seen him steer someone wrong on these things. If you don't have one a worthwhile investment is a factory shop manual that was used in the dealerships for that particular car. You can find one on Ebay or at swap meets and it will pay for it's self real quick. They were written in simple easy to understand terms in those days and gave good explainations and instrctions and didn't ***ume that the guy working on the car was what they called and "ACE" mechanic in those days.
Thanks for the feedback...Yeah I am on it right now as I type...Last night I set the timing right..It was defenitly out 180 degress....I just rechecked and its good now..Now Im about to tackle the valves...Seams to me that intake and exhaust on cylinder 1 are a bit loose...looks like they might not be closing fully. Ima try and tighten them a bit...The plugs are dry thats the weird part..I figured since I crancked it a bit they would be drippin in gas....They are dry but they have a bit of exhaust resido.
If you have a solid lifter engine the valves SHOULD be a little loose !!!!! On the order of I .006 and E .016 both hot but those settings cold should get you going.Hydraulics are a different procedure.
Hey john I have solid lifters...I went ahead and adjusted all of valves which seemed off...I tightend them and left a bit of play..I dont have a feeler gauge or a car to go pick one up so I went by feel...I also checked my timing again which some how was off 180 degress again or I did not correct it properly last night...I put a piece of tissue on cylinder 1 and when it blows super hard I check my piston so see its location. Then I just turn my crank a bit and its sitting right at the bb on the flywheel. So I then set the distributor pointing at the #1 spark plug wire on the cap..I went to fire and I got exited for a second seems like it might of made and effort to start but again no luck...I was turning the motor and it made the sound like it spead up and was about to fire but nothing...The plugs you mentioned I should change which I havent yet..I took them all out and they looked good. I spayedo some carb cleaner to clean them up..Is that enough or do I have to replace them because they go bad internaly? Thanks to all that helped!!! I will give it another shot after lunch but it looks like I might get some help..Where ?I dont know yet but I will look on craigslist or something along those lines..Any more suggestions are greatly appreciated! God bless
The plugs can look fine but will have a conductive coating on them,Ya ever ride older meaning pre 70s M/C you would know about wet fouled plugs. You are setting the valves on each cylinder with the piston near TDC on the firing stroke ? Just enough clearance to feel play should get you going.
Update: I struck gold!!!!! Finally it turn over and fired up on the first crank...wow it sounds great and its Idling like a top. So I checked my timing for the gazilienthhh time and of course it was off..The rotor was off a plug on the cap instead of pointing derectly at #1 cap plug it was in between #1 and #4...I guess that made a huge difference. I unbolted the distributor hold down bolt and adjusted the distributor so that the rotor was moved to #1 on the cap. I also made sure that end of the distributor was sitting inside the oil pump shaft. I am positive that the adjustment on the valves helped dramaticly. With the timing off and the valves not closing I was dead in the water for 2 days...Now it is time to bleed the brakes, rebuild the generator and take a cruise with the kids!!!! Thanks too all who responded and made this possible. I love H.AM.B!!!
With your explanation of how you set the valves, you have me a bit concerned. You can't just set them by feel. YOU NEED A feeler gauge. If they are even slightly to tight you are going to have problems big time. If you milled the head and then just put the rocker arm ***embly back on, the valves should have all been to tight. You said that they were all loose. The easiest way to set the valves now that the engine will run, is to do it while it is running. The valve settings will need to be a bit wider once the engine is running do to heat expansion. Instead of .006 and .16, it should be .008 and .16. You should be able to slide the feeler gauge between the valve and the rocker arm as it is running. If it won't, they are to tight. If you can slide the next thicker size gauge under with a heavy amount of pinching/drag you are ok. If the next size to big slides through real easy, the valve is to loose.
Well Im a bit confused..My head was cleaned from the base where it mats to the block..sorta like sanded down...Is that considered milled? Also the valves were not that loose but loose..The way I adjusted them was I set each cylinder at top compression stroke and then I wiggled the push rod up and down until I had less play...I will defenitly redo it with a feeler gauge now that its running..
As has been said, tight valves might have caused you problems, slightly loose one would not have. Like others I am going to guess that now if anything you have them a bit tighter than they need to be, that is going on the ***umption that they were close to correct before you had the head surfaced. I think all of your starting problem was probably timing. Glad you got it running, but get some feelers and make sure they are right before you put any miles on.
Be sure and prime the oil pump with a drill and ling screw driver. These guys are 100% about being 180 degrees off. I had to learn that one the hard way. Talk about being frustated!
Yup it was a real pain in the ****! How much oil are you supposed to get up on top? I have good flow coming from that bent looking tube on the head but its not splashing all over..Everything seems oiled up on the head.. Ima go and by a feeler gauge and check the valves. Now I also have a leak in the upper radiator part of the fins so gotta go and take it to a rad shop. My generator is not charging as well since I did nothing to it but install it right back as it came out.. Got a rebuild lined up for 100 bucks.
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