The 315 V-8 in my '57 Power Giant has serious crank and bearing issues (see video at http://57powergiantpowerwagon.tumblr.com/ and don't laugh too much - I parked it because of a radiator leak.) Re-welding and grinding the crank will be very expensive. Finding a 315/325 Poly/hemi in decent and inexpensive shape has been difficult. Came across an '87 292 Chevy six on CL for a reasonable price. I am thinking this would be a great swap. Comparable hp and torque to the 315, I would need to relocate the radiator and make motor mounts. Being a 4X4, I am interested in torque. The truck has 4.1 gears and an NP420 transmission. What is best way to increase torque with this motor?
i am going to asume you are talking low end torque, but with some of the posts i have seen, one never nows. clifford and others make rv style cams that might help a little. these engines are pretty good for low end torqe in stock form.
Please don't put a Chevy in that truck, that is just wrong. Rebuild the 315 or drop in a 354 or go balls out and get yourself a 392. Chevys are great motors, they just don't belong in a Power Wagon. That truck looks like it is worth spending the time and money on. Don't **** it up putting a Chevy in it and ruining it's value. Nobody it going to want to pop the hood on that and see a Chevy motor if you ever get around to wanting or needing to sell it. Welcome to the HAMB. But please make your second post more encouraging than your first. Hot rod it up a little while you are at it.
hoggyrubber: yes, low-end torque. No need to go that fast on the highway, but would like to be able to pull a 19' trailer on occasion and also be able to play off-road. hnstray: I drove the truck all rattly and noisy for quite a few months. Ran it about 2 quarts low one tankful. Guessing that's when I spun the bearings out of it. I parked when the radiator leak was getting worse. Decided I'd pull the pan off and maybe do an in-frame quickie bearing change. It made a bunch of noise but did not smoke and started every morning. Amazing motor. Almost had the crazy urge to throw the caps back on and drive it around some more! stude_trucks: I don't want to ruin the truck and won't. To weld up and regrind the crank is $600 for the rod journals only, not counting the main journals - so add another $400 for them. A bearing kit is another $150 minimum. Don't know what the cylinders look like, so pop the heads and at least a hone. Gasket kit: $150. Hopefully the cam and lifters aren't torn up from bearing materials flowing through the oil. If I have it apart, I need to check the valve guides, too. So, about $1500 for a quickie rebuild. A bit steep for me at the moment, but do-able over a few months. Throwing in a 354 or 392 hemi would be just as detrimental to the value of the truck as a Chevy motor other than being a Chrysler product. The truck is serial #7, your point is well taken. If I swap the motor, I will take the 315 and hang it on the stand and re-build it as I can. And do right by it. I plan on putting the 315 back in. The 315 s a good running motor with an good amount of torque down low. 315/325 hemi heads bolt right on. Been looking for them, too. All of the original linkages would be mapped and kept if unable to be used. The 292 is advertised with a Muncie. My guess is an NP435. All for $200. Running. Add another $100 - $200 for incidentals. For less than $500 have the truck back on the road. If it is an NP435 I would swap the entire package into the truck (the PTO is running off the transfer case) and keep the 315/NP420 together. No adapters. The radiator can be moved to the forward side of the support brace - there are already the correct bolt holes in there for the flathead 6 that was the standard engine. Maybe, I'll paint it silver and put a Red Ram sticker on the valve cover and a modified oil-bath air-cleaner, just to throw people off a bit. The truck will be used for work and off-road in Moab, the San Juans, NE Utah, NW Colorado, etc. It will never be a show truck / resto-mod as long as I own it. If I ever sell it and haven't put the 315 back in, the 315 will be going with the truck to the new owner to re-install. As I do not have power anything, I think the only thing that will be will be modified would be motor mounts, modified throttle linkage, and possibly the clutch linkage. The wiring harness is already modified for a GM alternator. I guess it would be fair to say that it is a rat rod style 4X4. Or probably, more accurately, a Pewe / Freiburger style 4X4.
Plenty of Dodge trucks of that vintage came with 354 Power Giant hemi motors. How would one of those hurt the value? Wouldn't for me, if done right anyway. But as long as you don't hack it up in the process, maybe some can look past it. I'm putting a 392 in my Stude and I got a set of the factory cast truck manifolds off a 354 which are the better flowing manifolds. I could have put a Stude 289 in the truck pretty easily, but decided I wanted a bit more low end torque for it than the 289 could deliver. Unfortunately, that was the biggest block Stude ever offered beside the Packard V8's. The hemi was easier to come by and crank up. A Packard could have been nice. But, I figured the 392 was cool enough, at least with a vintage Cragar blower on it anyway. Yeah, you can't beat Chevy for cheap. Can't argue with that one. Your plan with it sounds simple enough and maybe is. I'm sure it can be relatively easy enough with some decent skills and for***ude. But my experience tells me there will a bit more pain in the *** factor swapping in a different brand motor that you think beforehand. At least staying with the same family and basic block type would likely minimize a lot of that. Also, best not to use the "rat rod" word around here. People get all offended by it and posts tend to turn to **** as a result. People equate rat rods with poorly built garbage, myself included. Best to stick to hot rod or maybe just modified truck.
Putting a planned obsolescence engine in your mopar pretty well totally disgraces the truck and the brand name over and above devaluing the truck. It's as easy as ABC, Anything But Chubbies . .
Have you thought of using a 360? In later model trucks they are as common as cold noses on ****er spaniels. You may be able to find one in a junkyard that came in a manual trans truck and get the bellhousing flywheel and clutch, that is if your old parts won't fit a 360. You would have no shortage of power and torque even towing a trailer. It might also be possible to find a 315 with a crank that can be reground and save the cost of welding. I would be looking for a good crank before I spent $1000 having the old one reconditioned. You should be able to buy a NOS one for less than that. Have you tried Vintage Power Wagons for parts? They have tons of them and their prices are reasonable.
Just for the sake of argument I'll disagree with you on every count of your post. the 292 will give the grunt that's needed in this case and who in thier right mind would not be thrilled to find a more modern engine under the hood that's up to the task of moving the truck around like it was designed to do if a purchase was anticipated. Frank
Frank, How many Chevy guys you know are into Power Wagons? How many Mopar guys do you think would want a Chevy motor under the good of a Power Wagon? How many Ford guys do you think want either one? Answer for all 3 is very few. By doing so, you've just eliminated about 95% of potential buyers. Reason is that Mopar people like Mopar power and they have plenty of good cheap blocks to choose from. As we know, that is a particular source of the pride. We know it is not always in the looks department. Heck, I'd drop in a slant-6 before I'd put a Chevy in a Mopar, even if it was free. Like I said, Chevys made some great motors, just not for Mopars.
I won't lecture you about how to build/repair your own truck. I do have 1st hand knowledge of chevy's 292, however. Love 'em! With the loooooooong stroke they'll pull a tree over but they also have a little problem with side-loading the cyinder walls. Try to get as low mileage an engine as possible. If you don't RPM it like it's a small block chevy, it'll do fine. I had mine in a 68 C-10 shortbox 2 wheel drive and drove it with the original 3 speed for awhile...3.73 gears were just too damned low for the way I drove it. I put a 3 speed overdrive ****** in it and that pickup [loaded] would walk up the continental divide on I-80 without dropping out of overdrive...got a steady 17-19 MPG on the interstate. A tired 292 will wheeze, use oil and like my 1st one, knock. I'd expect a 100 dollar engine to do the same...might wanna factor in a re-build.
so....per Stude Trucks, it's OK to install a Mopar engine in a Studebaker to get the desired performance, but not OK to install a Chev engine in a Dodge truck to achieve similar personal desires (suitable and commensurate torque)? what a hypocritical at***ude to take in a hot rod forum we most of us don't consider anything a hot rod until it has a different engine in it. dj
Check the hot heads swap meet site - there are always parts for a 315/325 there and not at the prices you have been quoted - even with shipping. I love the 292 as much as any - ran the sh------ out of one on the race track for years - but Unless you know it is really a good one - the 292 will be no cheaper - and yes I deal with early hemi stuff to -( just price pistons alone for the 292) they price out about the same - save for the heads. That is unless you want a hybrid head for the 292 - and then the hemi/poly will be cheaper all day long. Still this is America- and you are free to make your own choice - at least for now - Do what makes you smile.
Boy, sorry to rub a sore wound. If I post again, I will try to be more pure. Trying to get a decent, quick to install motor to get running again. Didn't know if there were simple changes to increase the torque of the 292 without spending tons of money. Thanks for the info, will be continuing to look at the 292 and hope a 318A/LA or 360 comes available. I will go back to lurking. I agree about a lot of the rat rods out there. Will consider mine a modded truck.
LOL - I don't understand? au contraire, mon frere - I understand YOU (GOM), but I don't understand why you were so vehemently against this swap - it's a work truck. What if he'd discussed/suggested installing a diesel? Would you have been negative about that also.
Fab32, unless one of these guys is willing to pay for the engine work on your original motor, you do what ever you feel is best, at least for the time being. Click on the link below and they can help with regards to increasing the performance of the 292. http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/ http://www.hotsixes.com/
No, a diesel would be cool, even a GM one would be fine. If you understand me, why did you need to ask and then get it wrong?
That is the usual cop out answer to any question you can think of. If you don't want to hear people's opinions, then best not to throw it out there. Just taking the easy road to solve a problem is fine, but nothing to get exited over. I'm not convinced he is even taking the easiest and cheapest road to solve his problem. I mean, really, a complete off brand engine swap is somehow going to be easier and cheaper than just rebuilding a recently decent engine that is already in the truck? 315's aren't all that rare and it isn't even blown up or rusted out. Yes he can do it, it wouldn't be that hard, I'm sure it will work perfectly fine and might even save a few bucks and can likely be put back to factory pretty easily. Still doesn't mean that is what I think is best to do. We agree on one thing, yes it's his truck, he can and should do exactly as he pleases no matter what. Same for pretty much every project on this board, except for the truly historically significant cars and trucks. Yes, it's a work truck and nothing all that incredibly special in the grand scheme of things. Hell, send it to the s****per if he wants. I'm not going to get upset over it. Put a steam engine in it if he got one laying around and makes him happy. Sounds good to me. I'm fine with that. Honestly. I'm not looking to jump on anyone for putting the Chevy in it and I'm good with others thinking it is fine, just not what I would do. I know Studes and don't feel the need to explain my rational to others who likely aren't and don't care on top of it. I'm not particularly a Mopar fan myself, but I'm guessing a good many Mopar people likely have a similar opinion although they are fortunate enough to have a few more good hot roddable blocks to chose from that us Stude guys. If you are a Chevy or Ford guy, you probably don't get it and just something you don't concern yourself with. It's not my truck, all good with me.
the above comment is certainly less confrontational than the first remark you made to his post. I'm done arguing, you're dismissed.
I'll add my 2¢. If you're quoted $1k to fix the crank then be sure to take the KY jelly along, the **** sites should also be called so they can get it on film.... The 315 fits. The shiverlay will require x amount of time and money to install. Any pre-62 Mopar v-8 and manual bell will be a faster swap if you keep the oem trans. Since you have a divorced transfer then I would be looking for a 70s-90's Dodge truck with a 4-5 speed. Craigslist of chock full of folks parting out trucks. I just bought an 80K mile 440 and TF out of a 1976 cl*** C MH for $600. I really cannot count the number of projects that I have seen where the owner is "going to change it back just as soon as..." Many of those projects, simply due to unforeseen issues, get sideways... as in, never finished and not on the road. Your luck may be better. If grunt is a necessity, and you desire an inliner, then a Ford 300 is a better bet than the shiverlay. .
hey Stude, is it that time of the month for you?? The guy doesn't have the funds to rebuild the V8 at this time and all he asked was about increasing the torque on the 292 Chevy. It's simple, no need to complicate the matter. After all, he said when the time was right, he would reinstall the V8.
jcmarz, it's pretty clear you are a Chevy fan by your avatar. That's fine, great even. They have made and sitll make a lot of killer stuff. More power to you. I understand you inherently want to defend the use of Chevy motor. When you get a more diverse understanding of other brands, maybe you'll see a different perspective. If not, that's good too. But here a news flash, I seriously doubt it will be any cheaper (or better in any real way) to stick a whole different brand motor in the truck than it would be to fix what is already in it and actually not in all that bad of shape. But, if he wants to waste his limited funds and a bunch of time doing it, then more power to him. It's not a matter of what day of the month it is for me, opinions not going to change, but thanks for your concern.
I vote with John McEnroe. You're kidding yourself if you think a 292 Chevy won't devalue the truck any more than a 354 or 392. ANY Mopar engine will be way better than a Chevy engine.
It's not about brand here for me even though I am a Chevy fan and the words "Chevy 292" caught my eye. It's about a guy just wanting to to get his truck running again. That's it.
Then do it Pewe style! I know a farmer that has a 318 in an old dodge truck and the rod bearings were like yours if not worse (Except for your missing ones) He bought a set of .020 US bearings installed them, and still had low oil pressure so he pulled the bearings and brazed shim stock to the back of the bearings, the first time the shims were too thick and the motor would not turn over so he went with thinner ones, that was 12 years ago and the truck still runs like a champ. As a matter of fact he drove it from here in Illinois to the UP of Michigan last month. What have you got to lose? The crank is already toast, throw some bearings in it and run 50 wt oil until you can swing fixing it right.
no reason to go back to lurking, just take what info you can use and ignore the rest. if you end up making a bad choice, no big deal life, is full of them. i still say the easiest way to add low end torque for the 292 is rv cam. i haven't took apart a 87, but i didn't know they had a new process behind them. i love 292's and cheap fixes so i hope it works for you.
I have a friend in central Mississippi that has a few polyspheres, and parts ,he is dedicated to keeping old Dodges going. Not a business, but he is a hobbiest I guess. Has a real job. Reply if you havent embarked on the 292 path.
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