Need Info: How to make form for cab corners

I'm not an experienced panel beater. In fact, my only "experience" was in junior high shop cl***, when our teacher took a wooden form he'd turned on the lathe and taught us to make an ashtray ["You boys know what that's called? Why, that's called 'beatin' metal!' "].

So I have a '51 and a '52 International pickup. The cab corners are about gone on the '52; the ones on the '51 are there, but I'd wager there's a decent amount of bondo under the top coat of primer there.

I believe that, if I could figure out how to make a form, I could pound out some p***able cab corners that I could MIG weld in. But I have little experience figuring out how to transfer compound curves to a form. I don't have a CAD program; but I might be able to download something, if it might prove helpful.

Do I try to make an "inside" form, and pound the metal OVER it? Or do I try to make an "outside" form, and try to pound the metal INTO it? Or do I just take a flat sheet, cut out pie-shaped sections until it's close, and then try to weld it together and make something smooth out of it?

It's not like this is a Chevy, where replacement cab corners are readily available. Besides, I'd like to try to do this "old-school" and fabricate what I need. And of course the MOST traditional way--besides trial and error--is to ask for advice from someone who's been there before.

So school me. I'm 58 years old, and I ain't gonna learn this **** any younger.

 

Do I try to make an "inside" form, and pound the metal OVER it?

yes this is the method you want.Clamp the material on top of your wooden jig/buck and drag the material over it .

 

The thought has occurred...to take a straightedge and hold it vertically against the "good" cab corners...and to make some marks, maybe every 1/4"...and measure as accurately as possible the gap between the straightedge and the cab corner...and then use a jigsaw to cut out some 2-by stock to the approximate contour needed....then stack the 2-by segments, most likely attaching them together with screws. I'm thinking I could use a sander to "blend" the contours until they're a decent approximation of what I need.

But would pine be suitable for "pounding metal"? Or would I need to find some thing harder, like maple? Odds are, if I made a good set of forms, I could likely sell them to the next guy needing a set of IH cab corners [probably not for what I'd have in them, of course].

Thanks for the help so far.

 

Use oak.

Here's an example of 'jig' chasing.Hand made jig out of oak and steel.Clamp the material down and drag it down,keeping it tight to the jig.

To make this panel ,it takes 4.25 hrs start to finish.

 

Got a picture of what they are supposed to look like? That would help a great deal. Also since you are replacing both sides, you have a certain amount of "liberty" in the making of the new pieces. You might be able to make them more square with less compound curves.

That being said, listen to the metalsurgeon, he knows what he's talking about. Me, I'm just a self taught young'un with very little experience

 

I'm not sure about forming the exact cab corners you're speaking of but I started beating metal about a year ago and have made some pretty decent shapes with zero knowledge and minimal tools. I started out wanting to make the rear body work on a little café bike and did an alright job with the soft hammer and some wood blocks.. Then my uncle who does interiors made me a leather sand bag and I got some tear drop mallets from HF. I filmed and have about 10 youtube episodes. They get better in the later ones with the editing and speaking parts. Most of them are from last year when I literally just started hammering from an idea in my head. The link is episode 7 and the most viewed. Look on my page for the early ones where I make patterns and get some new tools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_8knO1guIk

 

After that I really started to want to know the goods on making metal move and per some recommendations I joined the metalmeet board. From there I learned about stretching and shrinking. Then I learned about making "tucks" using an old stump. Of course I had to find a stump and make my own. This then lead to the HF English Wheel which I still need to modify and this awesome purchase from Fay Butler. The real deal CB tool/Lancaster Shrinker Stretcher set "hot-rodded" by Fey himself.



If you really want to start beating metal get ready to spend some money and do a lot of reading. Here's the stump shrinking video that literally blew my mind and sparked a fire of interest..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVaHEJxDH8
Also forgot to mention making mallets out of old baseball bats and the use of tuck forks..

 

There are numerous books and videos by long time professionals, like Ron Fournier and Ron Covell, a**** several others.

I have attended several of Ron Fournier's cl***es in the past and found that a lot of metal shaping isn't quite so complicated as you might think, but what you do need to know is important.

My recommendation is to invest in a DVD or two and see the fundamentals in live action. That will put you on the correct path faster than anything else.

edit....you also will benefit when doing this by using the 'right' material. 19 ga AKDQ (Aluminum Killed - Draw Quality) is a softer, more malleable sheet metal. Available new, of course, but also frequently used by appliance manufacturers for the cases/housings of their
equipment as it is more easily shaped in press dies. If you have access to discarded major appliances, that may be an inexpensive source of material.

Ray

 

MetalSurgeon, your photos of the hammerform just made me slap my forehead! I've never seen or considered a hybrid wood/metal hammerform. Great idea! Beautiful part!

Buzzman, put up some photos of the corners. They may be simple enough to hand form, if you need only one of each.

~Alden

 

edit....you also will benefit when doing this by using the 'right' material. 19 ga AKDQ (Aluminum Killed - Draw Quality) is a softer, more malleable sheet metal. Available new, of course, but also frequently used by appliance manufacturers for the cases/housings of their
equipment as it is more easily shaped in press dies. If you have access to discarded major appliances, that may be an inexpensive source of material.

please don't do this

 

Don't do which...........the new 19 ga AKDQ..........or the use of salvaged material from appliance shells?

The latter was an afterthought and maybe not the best suggestion. But the 19 ga AKDQ? Seems like that would be difficult to disagree with.

Can you clarify your objection?

Ray

 

salvaged material from appliances

 

Hey Buzzman. This is G-force from oldihc. I hand pounded some corners on my '54 R100. This is how I went about it. I am by no means an experienced metal shaper and this was my first attempt at doing any custom sheet matal fabrication.

Cut the old corners out with plenty of material to reference the shape of my new corners to. Took some flat sheet metal stock, bought an eastwood sand bag and mallet off of Amazon and went to town using the old rotted piece as a reference for the basic shape. Worked out pretty good and just needed a skim coat to finish them off.

I'll post some pictures of my corners when I get home, but don't laugh, I am new at this sheet metal stuff.

 

good job.i bet you learn t from the experience to.

 

*****in' thread.. 'Ahh- thats how you'..

 

Pics of my IH corner.





It's not as pretty as the pros could do, but hey the goal for this project was that I do everything myself in my shop and learn as I go.

 

I'm thinking I could use a sander to "blend" the contours until they're a decent approximation of what I need.

 

My 64 F100 needed inner and outer cab corners on both sides. Several places sell outer, but none inner corners. I made both inner and outer out of flat sheet metal. I don't have all the fancy tools, so I just used a body hammer, a plastic mallet and a piece of rail road track. I've made over 10 patches. Making a cover for the cab mounted gas filler is the most challenging, but I'll get it.I made a new floor for it with a bead roller. This is my 1st time bending metal and I'm a long way from a pro, but I'm learning as I go and getting better.

 

Buzzman, if your cab corners are like the ones in the above photographs you should be able to easily form them with hand tools. Just bend the material for the patch around a cylindrical object (even your knee), then some tuck shrinks along the bottom edge to make the compund curve. Make the piece before you cut out the rust if you can. Fit the pieces as close as you can and weld, then restretch your welds. If you can get a dolly behind the weld stretch by hammering "on dolly".

~Alden

 

why not? I've used sheet steel from appliances here and there over the years....

 

I appreciate all the advice. Mine are exactly like the ones that RatPin repaired.

I was thinking of making a FORM so that I could p*** it along to others who needed to form their own corners. Mine are worse than the ones in the pics above...but the "good" ones I have on the other truck are enough better than that to give me a pattern to go by.

I recall hearing some time back that IH used 16-gauge metal on these cabs, although I've forgotten the source of that information. So I would ***ume that it would be "prudent" to go back with 16-gauge. Am I thinking correctly, or am I out in left field on this?

Again, thanks for all the help, comments, and suggestions.

 

I don't think they'd have used 16guage for the actual panels...maybe for the structural parts like door posts . Most bodies have somewhere round 18 or 20 guage for the panels themselves. I'd go with 18 on your cab corners as they are a rust prone area.
You will be best to rust-proof the areas after painting to protect them though...but 18guage would give you a longer life of the repair should you miss a bit.
I use a gun with a flexible hose to spray inside cavities like this.

 

I think it is kool to want to try and make the cab corners your shelf but whould cab corners from brand x trucks be made to fit with less work.

 

If you are interested in making cab corner, You can make patch panels in different ways. This could be made with a hammer and torch formed over a 4/8" flat bar and a 6/8" round rod, that you needed to perform a cab corners.

 

don't they have a coating on the material?

 

the stuff I've used has been usually powdercoated and/or sometimes zinc coated. Didn't take much to prep ready to weld on tho. an added advantage can be having paint on the inside of a repair.

Of course ...wheeling machines ,swagers etc don't much like thickly painted surfaces,but I'd personally always be open to recycling such steel if it looked and worked out ok.
I used some ex-hospital benches on a job..that steel was awesome to work with!!

do you have a 'shrinking' hammer Buzzman? You could shape up a couple corners pretty well with an appropriate shaped dolly and a shrinking hammer .

 

You can make a 3D pattern using overlapping layers of shipping tape on the cab corners.

 

19 ga AKDQ (Aluminum Killed - Draw Quality) is hard (just this side of impossible) to get here. I called my local suppliers and the prices were crazy ! !

 

Yeah, same way here. I use 20ga on outer panels and 18ga for structure and floor pans. The 20ga works out better when you're **** welding to an old panel thinned from rust over time.

 

I made a recent purchase of 10 sheets of 19 ga CRS from Ryerson in Newark, DE. I had called to get this, and the sales person I talked to was able to get the CRS but was iffy on getting the AKDQ I had asked for.

Lo and behold, one of their salesmen calls this past Monday to do a follow up, and I got to asking about AKDQ in 19 ga. He says they can get it, that it normally comes from another part of the country, but they have a shipping network between facilities. So given enough time for the regular runs, you can get it from anywhere it is located to a Ryerson near your location. As these are regular shipping runs they make, there is no additional charge for shipping in to a local facility from elsewhere in the country. Food for thought if you have a Ryerson close by.