I am running a 8cm Merc flathead with T5 trans. I have a 57 Ranchero 9 inch Ford rear with CI parallel leaf spring in my '36 Roadster. The car has a clutch chatter which is annoying though not extreme. My question is, do you Guys think the 3 inch lowering blocks aggravate the chatter by raising the axle above the spring centerline? I have put 2 clutches in the car (no simple job) and while I had it apart checked the pressure plate, adapter, Crank etc with a dial indicator but found no obvious issues. I have not at this time played with anti chatter rods or other fixes. Do you think the lowering blocks add to the issue? John L
How is the transmission mounted? The reason old Fords need the chatter rods is to prevent the rocking back and forth that the original motor mount biscuits allow. If you have a firm transmission mount, you may not need the chatter rods. Especially since you now don't have a torque tube rearend pushing the engine/trans ***embly back and forth either. Only the clutch pedal mechanism provides a push. It seems to me the lowering blocks and driveshaft joint angles have little to do with clutch chatter.
Good points alchemy. The T5 is mounted on a polyurethane 2 bolt chevy mount. The engine mounts are the standard rubber biscuits. Other than the harder trans mount there is nothing in place to prevent lateral movement of the engine. BTW the harder trans mount did help the issue but not a complete fix. John L
Those poly mounts hardly flex at all. I'd think chatter rods wouldn't stiffen it up much more. The problem is probably somewhere else.
Sir, you didn't mention anything about resurfacing the flywheel. I would do that even if it is a new one at a auto machine shop that knows what they are doing, TR
Verify that the pinion angle and the trans angle are in spec. Fix the source of the problem, then lower the suspension if you like and re-check the angles again.
Did you actually build the car? Did you install the leaf spring kit? I ask because sometimes people set up a new rear suspension while the vehicle is up in the air, and unfortunately tighten all of the fastners while the suspension is hanging. This leaves all the suspension in a binding issue once vehicle weight is on it and it's down to actual ride height. To correct this " IF " it is your case, loosen all mounting and attatchment points, bushings, etc, lower vehicle down on it's wheels and full weight, and now final tighten all the previous fastners that you have loosened, TR
Another factor is the pressure plate adjustment...several people have reported new import pressure plates for flatheads coming through with very uneven heights on the pressure plate fingers.
My mistake for not mentioning it. I did have it surfaced before installing the first clutch. Took it back to the clutch place and had it checked when I got the second clutch and checked it with a dial indicator before I re-***embled it. Thanks for the thoughts.
Is the clutch three finger or diafram type? I think the blocks [axle rocking on the springs] are the main problem but I wouldn't count out installed clutch finger height....Put the emergency brake on and see if you can get the clutch to chatter..Or you can try putting a ratchet tie down around the axle and the trans cross member and tighten slightly, put another ratchet tie around the rear axle and attach to rear of frame and snug up..If clutch behaves better then all you should need is a torque arm on the rear axle or maybe kicker shocks....
Yes it does have the Long style 3 finger pressure plate. I checked the height of the fingers but had no way of testing the spring tension. Your ideas have good merit. By the same token I could custom make bell housing brackets and fabricate anti-chatter rods for the engine. John L
I don't think this would be an issue. I installed the CE kit which is set up for the Ford rear. Suspension works great and is free.
Am I wrong Rick or do you not have to change flywheel to get one drilled for a diaphragm type clutch? God forbid I have to pull the engine again to do this John L
Sometimes, sometimes the flywheels have both patterns..Stay rods to the engine/frame won't do much, you have open drive shaft..Did you try my tie down suggestion? If you have corrected the problem please let us know..
I believe the "chatter rods" prevented the fan from ontacting the radiator during a quick stop. There # 1 purpose was to limit the amount of travel the engine had parallel to the axis. 39 std. back the fan mounted generator was very close to the radiator. Regardless I don't think your lowering blocks had any effect on chatter, You could always take them out and see... The amount and kind of "marcel" that is present in a "sprung" clutch has an effect on chatter. Obviously so does heat and oil buildup. g
I can't see how lowering blocks could make the clutch chatter. my 61 Dodge had clutch chatter when I got it. had clutch chatter after I redid the trans and clutch and resurfaced the flywheel, had it still when I lowered it. still does. I think it is something in my clutch linkage or the fork or something. some day I might look at it again.
There is a lot of good information in the above posts. Most of which I believed before I started the thread. I have not at this time pursued the issue further. For one reason it is not a terrible issue but mostly because being a roadster it is pretty much a summertime car. I need to do some paint touch up which will probably mean the car will come back out in the spring. Thanks to everyone who has replied. I may try to tie the axle as described by Seb Fontana when I am ready to bring it back out. If I find out anything of interest I will revive this thread and post an update. John L
Had a lot of chatter in mt flathead with a rebuilt unit. I found ford NOS pressure plate and disk. Perfect now. Chatter comes from your disk.
The normal diaphragm pressure plate has 6 equally spaced bolt holes, like '49-'53 Mercury Borg & Becks, but there are some newer diaphragms that are direct replacement for Long P-plates. One reason early Fords had anti-chatter rods was because of the direct acting clutch release design, that tries to move the engine forward when the clutch is dis-engaged. The equalizer introduced in '40 eliminates any engine movement when operating the clutch. If you are using the stock '36 clutch release, you may consider adding tension rods that would prevent forward engine movement. I had to on my '32 because of limited space between the engine and radiator, and the use of an early clutch release.
This is probably some of my problem. My roadster came out of South Africa and was RH drive. When I converted it To LH drive I used a set of '39 mercury pedals that do not have the offset clutch lever like a ford which causes the clutch linkage to not be aligned from the bell housing lever to the clutch pedal lever. I suspect at least a good portion of my issue is the result of engine movement due to clutch linkage pressure. The fact that the polyurethane trans mount helped seems to bear this out also. I have a friend with a set of Ford pedals but so far the deal has not been made. I would love to replace the pedal ***embly and build some tension rods while the car is down for the winter. John L
John, JFYI, below is a picture of my T-5 and tension rods. Nothing fancy, just some angle brackets, 3/8" rods and heims from the T-5 to the X member.
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