Hi All! Does anyone have a P&G model 111-F series 2? I'm looking for instructions or someone that can tell me if I have everything, and if this model will work on my Y-Block? It has the barrel with the above mentioned markings, and one snap-on adapter. I've googled and read everything link I could open, but can't figure out what this model is for...
Mid 60's technology. Basically a dial indicator type affair that allows you to adjust your valves very accurately.
Gil's Garage on the Classic Thunderbird Club International site indicates the Model 111 should have an inner barrel marked 111-1B to be correct for the Y-block. Hope this helps!
Never heard of one. I still use a feeler gauge. Now I have to go looking for one and teach myself how to use it.
Having tried using a P&G on a SBC with large springs and a radical roller cam , I went back to the tried and true feeler gage. I couldn't get the proper adaptor to make it repeatable , not the tools fault.
As somebody mentioned they were available back in the 60's as a dial indicator based tool to run the valves between rounds. The sponsored teams with a few $$$ frequently used them, most of the dirty t-shirt racers used the good old feeler gauges
I used one back in '65 to set the valves on my 301 SBC with a Duntov 30-30 solid lifter cam. It worked OK but the only advantage I saw was not getting oil spray all over by setting them with a feeler guage and the engine running. I never noticed a performance increase.
They seem like a neat tool, and can give you a precision setting to adjust your valve lash. @ Chris, I saw that post on Gil's site, but I cannot find that 1B anywhere on mine. I'll probably have to pull it apart to find, becasue I cannot see any markings on the inner barrel as it is put together. @ Skidmarks, thank you, unfortunately from what I've read the barrels are different between the two models, so the intructions won't help me know what I have. I do live in Portland. If anybody has an address for where P&G used to be in their instructions, I can swing by the building and see what is there now Maybe there are some old papers laying around or something? Also, I will check around local engine/machine shops that have been around a while to see if they have anything. However, in the meantime, I'd love to hear any comments, hints on opperating them, or if anyone wants to scan and post instructions that would be great and maybe be helpful to the whole community.
Some magazine back in the day did an article on them and felt they were the best thing since sliced bread. But I have never seen one or used one. The article said they were able to adjust the valves more precisely than with a feeler gauge, but how often have we seen magazine articles that were influenced by trying to please a paying advertiser ? Kinda like what we see on car shows on TV today where they feature some product because some advertiser gave them one free. Don
Chris, thank you! We have an address, and those directions will be super helpful! Don, check out this article I found by Ron Iskenderian: http://www.dragracingonline.com/technical/camsession/ii_4.html Once I find out if I have the right one and I try it out, I'll post my two cents on how well it worked for me. However, so far as I've gotten looking through old threads on this and other sites, I haven't seen many negative comments about this product.
In my case, once I figured out how to use it I'll never part with it. Much more convenient than using a feeler gauge on a SBC with Comp Cams roller-tip rockers. I simply get the engine warm, pull the valve covers, pull the coil wire to keep from starting -- and go around all sixteen rocker arms one at a time while cranking the engine with a remote at each rocker and adjusting to the dial indicator.
Nice, I can't wait to try it out. But I'm beginning to think that instructions for my model do not exist...
I never saw this article but I never saw a P &G valve gapper in any of the racing legends tool boxes either. I always felt that it was snake oil. It may work but the cost and the set up time was not worth it to most. If it could knock of a tenth off in the quarter mile every body would be using them. A cool period piece for the shelf but not a great find for tuning cars IMHO. Can I interest you in a tornatic carb maximizer? Gets 35 MPG and increases HP 25% Just bolt it on.
Haha... no thanks Still looking for any instructions or info on the Model 111-f series 2 though. At this point I just want to know what motor it's for...
I have, or had one, for the Y block, it was in the original box with instructions, I just do not know what happened to it sorry. My Dad was a Ford factory mechanic and brought it home.
Nice! If it ever pops up, and you have the ability to scan the directions, please attach them to this thread. Even though Rocket Scientist Chris has a different model, his instructions had adds for other models and tells what they are for. Unfortunately the model I have wasn't mentioned, but I'm sure it has been helpful to others.
Hey, I remember those, but they were marketed as "mini superchargers" in our area. The results promised were about the same of course. Wonder how many were actually sold.
I had one in the 60's came in a really cool wooden box. I might still have it... need to look. regardless I found it to be a waste of time. But what the hell did I know I was only 18.
The P & G was NOT a scam. Anyone worth his wrenches who has adjusted valves on an engine with a few miles on it knows the rockers get a worn spot where it hits the valve. The feeler will adjust these loose, resulting in noisy valves, and less than perfect results. The P & G rests on the top of the valve spring and helps the mechanic adjust the clearance between the worn spot and the valve stem. It may have been used by a racer or two, but fleet owners used the hell out of them with perfect results.
I would imagine that most of the performance engines have roller rockers and dont wear a groove on the stamped steel rocker like back when.
I have one, It was used for FE ford engines, I'll look and see what is in the box. I know it had an extra barrel with it.
Ole Don is right: on an engine that tends to wear a 'pocket' in the rocker contact surfaces, such as Y-block Fords do (& other 'shaft-rocker' engines as well )it becomes difficult to accurately use a feeler gauge; the P&G was unaffected by the wear as it measured the total movement of the rocker. No, they weren't "Snake-Oil", but they were expensive for their time(most precision tools are) & if the mechanic removed & resurfaced the rocker faces, a trained mechanic with a feeler gauge was faster & "close enough" for most applications.
I have / had one. Really cool with a real pretty wooden box. Seems like it cost about 65.00 or so. I never saw a performance advantage from it and it took a lot of time. However I did make a little money with it. I would charge about 5.00 to adjust your SBC valves at my place (pop's shop) or 10.00 if I traveled to your place.
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