Has anyone ever used a real mustang II front end? or is that just a term that is used these days? i have access to an actual mustang II and he wants $500 for the front end. Problem #1- its been sitting for years and would probally need alot of replacement parts thrown at it. Problem #2-Im thinking it would be more cost effective to buy a pre-fabbed front end without all the new parts that the old one would need. What so yall think? does anyone actually use a real mustang II front end?
Your are correct in both #1 and#2. Why would you use parts that are about 40 years old? You don't know where they have been. Yes we used those parts in the 80"s when they were near new parts.
Said it before and I'll say it again......Take a Pinto for a drive before you get excited about an MII setup. Worst POS on the road!
The street rodder I saved my old 29 Chevy coupe from cuts the crossmembers out of the ones he finds and uses them in his street rods. My 29' was next on his list, saved it though. That ch***is is going under my roadster, sold off the coupe body.
If you want an "MII", then get an aftermarket IFS kit that is BASED on the MII geometry. The aftermarket kits are stout, overly engineered and work great. The resulting ride is great. The naysayers may not have ever driven a vehicle with one of these kits. They ride solid and precise. But, these ifs suspensions are not traditional, so beware.
This does NOT apply to all kits out there. I'm not going to "name names", but beware that you will likely get what you pay for. Some of the stuff out there can be downright dangerous, especially under a heavier car. Ask the manufacturer what F axle weight limit their setup has. If they tell you it will work under anything...RUN.
WOW $500, Thats alot, you can get a new aftermarket kit for $900. I went through the same thought, I got a M2 front end from a junkyard, I installed a new aftermarket crossmember in my 53, then bolted on all the M2 stuff from the junkyard, I needed to replace every bushing and ball joint, the rack was cracked ect. ect., with in the first few months I replaced ever part from the junkyard with tubular control arms new bushings, new ball joints , new rack ect.ect. I would buy a complete kit and be done with it. After it was all said and done I saved just a few hundred dollars, but it was not worth it. Buy a good kit with tubular control arms and disc brakes, if you dont do it now, you will before long. Godspeed MrC.
$500 is way too much considering you will likely have to replace plenty of parts. I used a Fatman M11 and it is spectacular,,handles/rides well but don't buy an "off the shelf" unit. Buy direct from manufacturer so they can custom build the crossmember and tophats to fit your application.
The other thing you frequently find with after market Mustang II kits is "based on Mustang II geometry". That's industry code speak for, "well, it's kinda close". I see so many kits out there without a basic triangulated crossmember, with upper and lower inner attachment points that are spread to fit a different frame, widths that are comprimised, strutless lower A-arms that have no double shear mounting, lack of any trace of anti-dive properties, all of which SEVERLY comprimise the geometry and integrity of the front end. I would have to put a tape measure long and hard to most of the aftermarket stuff before I would agree to install it on somebody's frame. Put me in the camp of many times over prefering '74-'78 Mustang II or '74-'80 Pinto over aftermarket!
Which is why I use Jag XJ6 IFS - $200-$300 for a complete low mileage example with cross member, power steering, sway bar, big vented disc brakes and 4 piston calipers and comes from a 4000 lbs car so plenty heavy duty. Anti dive and anti squat all engineered from factory and proven for decades. Just weld in factory subframe and you're done. 59" hub to hub so may not be for everything but under a fat fender, nothing rides finer. Why on earth would I want a pinto front end?
I love these threads, ford spent millions designing this frontend, in stock form its mounted in a unibody car, its the strongest part of the stocker, but no good for hot rods. I won't use an aftermarket front end "based" on a stocker, that insinuates that the manufacturer has copied the original, not saying some aren't comparable, they are, but there is also alot of s**** metal masquerading as m II frontends. Shop carefully, you get what you pay for, I prefer the stocker, use them all the time, got one under my 36 fifteen years now, O issues with it. $500? Going price these days, pretty cheap front end when you consider its a complete unit, Yes, you may have to rebuild it, but parts aren't expensive for them, and you'll have the satisfaction of knowing its all good. Just depends on your point of view, traditional? Its older than a lot of the members on this forum, 1974 was a long time ago. Just saying is all.
I had two "factory" MII front ends, one under a 29 Ford roadster and a 36 Chevy P/U which I drove for about 85,000 miles total. Both cars handled great,manual rack in the 29,power in the 36.The 36 was too light at highway speeds,changed to a manual and handled and braked like a dream. I agree though that other than the cross-member and the spindles,you will replace alot of old worn and tired parts.
I have used Pinto front ends same as a stock Mustang II. Why use 40 year old parts? Well less see how old is a deuce axle? 500.00 is too much for a used real Mustang II before I dropped that much on one I would buy a good aftermarket unit. New and improved. Find one that uses GM metric calipers instead on the race chit, cheap off the shelf calipers any time any place. Oh and don't use one on an open wheels roadster, they look like ***.
I would use an "updated" version which uses a triangulated lower control arms. NOT one with lower strut rods. This suspension is universally accepted.... just not on here.
Well let me ask you this, if you had a '55 Chevy or a '64 galaxie would you use the original suspension? How many are driving around with the original suspensions under them? If the control arms are not pitted or rusted through, pretty rare I maybe have seen one in my time, they are most likely to be fine. Do I think that a Pinto suspension under a car is your best option? I don't even think the re-engineered pinto suspension is your best option, they are popular for the same reason that most choose an SBC, cheap compaired to the better options. The modern street rodders love them and price and easy access play a major role in the choice. That is part of the reason they have become popular with the types of builds that we do on here whether the hard core traditionalist likes them or not, they are cheap and easy to come by. Anyway, if someone wants to use one fine, but a 40 year old suspension is not a good arguement against it, it just doesn't fly. Maybe a 40 year old trashed suspension will fly, I wouldn't probably use a bent or badly pitted Duece axle either. But age simply is not a good arguement. I think that the M-II is actually pretty well accepted here, some of us don't care for them for obvious reasons, but I'll just about bet that percentage wise you will see as many here as you would see at the local cruise. Personally if I had to have modern suspension and wanted something that is pretty close to a bolt in I would use a dakota suspension from ElPolako. My opinion is that the dakota suspension is a better suspension, a bit more pricey, but in my opinion a better option for IFS.
55 Chev or 64 Ford have a bit more metal in them. You are correct rusted pitted stuff should be thrown away. That is what I really meant in my original post. The replacement parts are so cheap compared to used parts, if you figure your time is worth more than $2/hr. But seeing as we are on a traditional site here maybe you think that $2/hr is a highly paid person. PNB what were you paid in th 50's
I honestly wouldn't trust most Fat Man crossmembers under a kid's radio flyer wagon. Terrible engineering for the most part, the industry leader in spreading inner mounting points instead of correctly engineering kits (absolutely destroys camber curve), and most important a large portion of their offerings don't bother to triangulate the crossmember and frame rails. I have repaired and seen repaired more of their crossmembers than any other in the industry. I'm sorry if I have insulted anybody that uses their products, but you just can't fathom the difference between driving a car with their offerings and a car with a properly designed crossmember kit unless you drive them one after the other.
500 is way too high for a stock front end out from under a MII or Pinto. The father and uncle of One of our PNW Hambers lost track years ago of how many stock front ends they put under rods over the years with the majority of those cars still on the road with the front ends they put under them still making miles. I'd still go with the Jag crossmember if I could find one though.
Having innocently purchased one of their universal cross members - you know, universal = one size fits nothing, I can wholeheartedly concur with your ***essment and the f*cked up geometry, which leads me right back to why I use Jag IFS - the whole Jag shebang hub to hub cost me far less than just the bare FatPerson apology for a Mustang II cross member, which incidentally was meant to be custom tailored for my specific vehicle but turned out would give me 1" less hub to hub than the stock front axle. I find no compelling reason to use anything other than Jag IFS and IRS nowadays....
I know that, I just wanted to make sure that the other fellas did. I was paid 80 dollars a week after taxes in the '60s. Skilled labor. The Ol Man brought home 45 dollars a week as a journeyman automitive machinist in the '50s, I remember when he landed a 60 dollar a week job (vaguely) and we thought we were rich. It actually the ball joints and bushings for an old Mustang II don't cost any more than what you will pay for the ones in a new Mustang II suspension. If you start needing major components like control arms and spindles it will get pricey. There is the rub, if you find an original in good condition for a good price you are in good shape, you still won't have the re-engineered parts that are made to take the stress of a heavier vehicle either way. I did use a Pinto suspension under a bullet nose stude a while back. It was a free for hauling it off suspension and it was solid. If you have to pay very much for one you are better off buying the new bolt in suspension.
Yup, I put one under my '46 Chevy a bout 1993. I paid $50 at a junk yard for it, they cut it out. The crossmember fits the 46-48 and probably others like it was made for it. Set the angle to get the caster correct and weld away. It's been in there for 20 years with no problems much to the "surprise" of the guys who said it wouldn't work.
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