8BA Flathead Valve Removal

First off, this is my first flathead teardown, so go easy. I have most everything removed and have come to the valves. It seems as though there is no way to remove the valve other than to cut it. The valve spring retainer seems to be one piece and I am stumped as to how it comes off. I am also having a problem removing the valve guide retainer with normal hand tools. Any advice would be awesome!!!!

 

Telling us what year would help.

 

there is a tool to compress those springs and once they are compressed the spring locks sit inside of a little cupthey can be a ******* to get loose,best way i found was to hook the edge of the spring lock retainer cup with the spring compressor and compress the spring untill the valve comes up the tap the valve head with the handle of a hammer,they will come loose just watch wear they go so you dont loose them

 

Whoa this will be good. Lots of trial and error but there is a system. On the intake side, reach in the port with a long curved end pry bar and push the guide down to reveal the horseshoe shaped clip that holds the works in. Once you get that figured out and mastered you will realize how the exhaust will have to be manipulated to be removed. Be careful and watch out for flying valve bits. I would post some pics but the beer says I shouldnt...

 

well..the heads are stamped 8ba, was that model available any other year? One webside said to look on the top of the block in the right rear for the date code but no luck on mine. The bellhousing is not cast into the block and it was painted red (seemed original).

 

since i wasnt going to be reusing the springs, I just cut 1 spring out to remove the tension off of the retainer and there is no slit or clip in the retainer, its a solid piece. I have also heard of some flatheads having a one piece valve guide, how would the mushrommed end fit through to remove.

 

Read here, when ever you read from something from Bruce Lancaster, Listen up and pay attention. He is one of our local Flathead gurus!!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=771233&highlight=valve&showall=1

 

If you have the mushroom ended valves, then you have split guides and will have to use split guides again if you re-use those valves. One piece guides are for straight stemmed valves (a common and desirable upgrade, in my opinion). As mentioned earlier, the vave/guide/spring ***embly is designed to come out as a unit and be dis-***embled on the bench. Special tools are made for this. www.vanpeltsales.com is one supplier and they also have some good info and illustrations on their site.

 

This link on our website shows the various tools in action:

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_valveremoval_tools-1.htm

 

If the valves have mushroom ends and split guides, and you want to swap to straight stem valves and one piece guides, you must swap lifters to the newer type. The smaller stems will punch right through the older lifters.

 

If you have no cast bellhousing you have an 8BA style ('49-'53) engine with one piece valve guides and not mushroom valves. The spring retainers must be split. How else could they be installed?

The retainers consist of two wedge shaped halves that sit in a cup. It may just look like one piece from the outside.

The horseshoe clips are stuck in a groove. You can't remove them unless you get the valve guides to move downward. The valve guides are probably stuck in place from carbon, rust, and grime.

You can cut the valves, but I'd suggest getting a valve spring compressor that fits, compress the springs and remove the valve retainers. Then push the valve guides down with the help of a hammer and penetrating oil.

 

A conventional valve spring compressor is all you need with the "straight" fingers mounted. This is for the "1 piece" guides and conventional valve locks.

A hand operated one will get the job done, ours is air-operated, see the photo below.

After we remove the valves we use a puller to pull the guides out. In 99% of all our rebuilds we are able to re-use all the original guides after installing some bronze liners. Very rare when an OEM guide can't be rebuilt, only if it is badly damaged (highly unlikely).

(Add) This saves the cost of purchasing 16 new guides. The monies spent for new guides would be put towards the cost of the bronze installation.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's 2 shots, one shows the springs being removed and the other shows the guides being "pulled", some are very tight, some loose. Most are very tight! The puller has no problems on the tightest guides. As stated above, we install bronze liners in EVERY flathead valve guide on re-***embly.

 

VanPelt has the relevany parts drawings. Valve springs are very light--if you lack the proper prybar a crowbar with split end will likely get the spring forced up a bit to compress it.
Pry spring up from near its bottom with one hand on bar, flick the keepers off with other hand. At this point the valve can be pulled out, ***uming not totally rusted. You may have some burrs at botton or around groove plus some baked on crud to fight. Once valves are out the top, pick out spring and hardware, knock guide down to release its retainer, knock it out. Pictures here:

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_engine-pics/Flathead_Engine_valve1949to53.jpg

 

I have torn down several 49-53 flatheads,the method we use to remove the valves is as follows.
1. With the heads and intake removed, rotate the crank or camshaft (if the crank is removed) and when each valve is fully open, pry the valve up with a small crowbar and install a wooden clothes pin on the stem of the valve, to hold it wide open. Do this to all 16 valves.
2. Turn the engine upside down, and push all of the lifters down. Remove the camshaft and then all of the lifters.
3. Turn the engine right side up, pry the valves up and remove the clothes pins.
4. Use a c-frame spring compressor like "GOSFAST" pictured, and remove the retainers and keepers. Pull the valves out, wiggle the springs off of the guides (twist and bend them as needed).
5. Drop a 3/8" "socket head" allen bolt in the guide, using a drift punch in the pocket of the allen bolt, using a hammer, drive the guide out the bottom, the forks will be free as well.
Using this method you will not damage any parts.

 

Is it possible you are seeing valve rotators/retainer ***embly which where used in the last couple years of the 8BAs? They do look a lot like a mushroomed valve stem when ***embled and covered with ****.

 

The parts drawing covers both flavors for the '49-53 types...the later one just gives you more bits to keep track of. They went to the rotaters on the later engines because the accountants cut the use of hard seats in most engines...

 

Also...guides tend to be frociously stuck, so you want to expose that alone to allow serious violence. Unless your engine is badly weathered, the retainer stuff is usually only lightly stuck with oil rather than deep-fried corbon and you can generally slide up the conical thingy and flick off the keepers by hand once you find a way to lever the spring up. Using a compressor of course allows a more organized attack since you don't have tohold up the spring with one hand...so get one if you do have troubles.
Getting a valve bar and other real flathead tools would be a good idea...

 

If you're not working on a "stuck" or "badly rusted" unit those valves and guides will be dis***embled in less than a half-hour, all 16. And every piece will be reusable including the guide retaining clips (if necessary). We always use new anyway!

It takes longer to "tap" a few 3/8"-16 threads in the bottoms of each guide for the puller (once the valves are out) than to take all the locks/retainers off using the air-operated spring compressor.

This is without touching the cam or lifters, the unit does need to be able to turn over though in order to "relax" each spring.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. One customer couldn't believe how quick we had dis***embled one here a few months back. We did it while he waited, he wanted to watch.

 

This is what I did. Got a valve spring compressor, the big "c" type, from Sears pretty cheap. Once I got the hang of it, all but the guides were out in about 5 min each. Sprayed the guides with PB and next night or two was out there with a 9/16th deep well socket and a hammer. Did the trick.