I know that the MII are loved and hated on here. Not trying to start that conversation. What I am looking for help on is the brakes. I have a mostly complete MII setup that I got with the '41, including the rotors drilled for GM. What I need are the calipers and the caliper brackets. Questions is, since the rotors were "Free" should I ditch them and jump right to the 11" GM ones and the more common brackets or stick with the stock 9-1/4" ones? The car will be running a 283/T5 with drum rears. Are the upsized rotors that much better?
I'm a cheap *** and went with free 9 inch brakes..stops just like a Pinto, not that well. If it had a bigger HP engine I'd up for the bigger brakes..Your call!
I'm borderline cheap so I feel ya. Trick is, I think it might be cheaper to just upsize them now. Seems like the brackets and calipers are actually cheaper in the large format.
Kind of what I'm thinking, just bummed I got the bearings for the rotors before asking the question. Thanks again for the help.
The kit I got came with 11.5 granada rotors and GM metric calipers, brackets and bearings included. My M2 came with 9in drums. Godspeed MrC.
btw you can save some money if you get dropped spindels and the disc brake conversion as a package, if that what you want to do. Godspeed MrC.
don't look like I need to drop them. The ones is have, in combination with the CE cross member looks like it will be pretty good.
The Granada rotors, with the GM calipers are only good for about a 11% gain in breaking power. I used stock MII suspension, and brakes on a 66 Mustang that weighed 3300 lbs that I used to autocross, and the occasional roadrace. Never had problems with brake fade, even while having to come to a complete stop from 140 mph.
When you say you are going to use a Mustang II front end, does that mean that you have harvested a used front end out of a Mustang, or have you purchased a new aftermarket unit? Your original thread also says that you are going to use a 383/T5 power train.. Several of my friends, i.e. "Old School, junk yard dogs", are still using pieces and parts that they harvest from thirty plus year old vehicles to build their cars, many of which have huge engines.. Of course the majority of these cars are never really driven on the highway at highway speeds for long distances.. I live by two golden rules; "If you can't find the time to do it right, when are you going to find the time to redo it?" Repairs/modifications are only as good as the weakest part.. The last two cars that I have built, a '39 Plym conv. cpe and a '49 Olds 2dr fst bk. I used front end modifications from FatMan. Everything worked they way it was supposed to work, when the traffic stops. I stop, in a safe straight line... With the high cost to build a car in today's world, trying to do it on the cheap does not make much sense to me.. Bill
If you have to buy brackets and calipers anyways, go the bigger rotors. You use some of those new bearings in the larger rotors anyways(can't remember numbers right now). Sell off the small rotors.
So if the average stopping distance at 70 mph is 245 feet, and you could shorten that by 11%... that could mean stopping well clear of that stalled semi with the big brakes... or parking 24 feet underneath it with the Pinto system. I'll go for the bigger brakes.
Finding out the hard way could be very expensive, very painful, and/or very deadly. If you are going discs anyway, go big, or go home.
^^^ I am with him^^^ The only reason I will upgrade my front MII brakes is because I hate the wedge slyle caliper slides. Otherwise, I have more braking power then I will even need. But, if I do need more, such as stated, a stalled semi, I need to pay more attention to my driving.
After as many miles as I had on the coupe with that harvested MII frontend, it finally was right after Polly bushings on the last rebuild. Prior to that I cussed that frontend every mile. Small rotors and brake fade. I wish I would have up graded to the big brake kit, but never did. There is almost no road feel with a power rack. Steers incredibly easy. If I had to do it all over again, I would have done a clip from a rear steer Camaro or a G body. Compe***ion Engineering has a good setup also. There's lots of alternatives. Oh and the coupe is my old 46 chevy, weighing in at 3160 pounds. SBC/T5 though now its converted back to an auto. 7 years daily driving and over 150K Any questions about it now you could PM 51Streamliner.
I have seen you, and many others, comment to this effect previously but did not respond. However, I think it bears some further discussion. At one time I had a similar opinion, until I looked a little deeper. The original 1971 model year Pinto is a somewhat different animal in the suspension department than the '74 thru '80 models, which were based on the newly engineered '74 thru '78 MMII under discussion. The MMII (and shared '74 thru '80 Pinto) are substantially stronger than the original Pinto. The spindle itself, the bearings etc. are Galaxy sized components. The MMII placed the engine well forward, virtually centered over the front axle centerline. V8 MMI's weighed in in the low 3000# neighborhood, not the 2200# range I have seen quoted by some. So, they had a significant forward weight bias. With the engine placement of most HAMB friendly cars being further aft than the MMII, that alone reduces the percentage of vehicle weight carried by the front suspension, as I am sure you recognize. To further support that point, the majority of MMII installations require the 4 cyl MMII springs to get the correct spring rate and ride height on the typical V8 powered car or pickup. I don't expect those with strong anti-MMII opinions to change their minds about using that geometry, or parts, on their builds. But I do expect people to stick to the actual facts, not uninformed preceptions. Ray
Good point. I picked up a pair of forged caliper brackets for mine on Ebay like these 310327720136 that look and seem to fit good. His shipping is 12.00 Another vendor has the brackets with loaded calipers for 109.95 but their shipping is pretty stiff. A guy would have to do some research as to if he can save money by buying the regular hard parts locally or ordering a combination deal online.
Good point Ray, heres another I used a junkyard M2 for mock up, having all the parts right in front of you helps with placement/fitment, no different than a plastic engine block or wooden wheels, I did intend to use the stock MII with aftermarket disc brakes, but after pricing all the parts needed to be replaces, the aftermarket was the way to go. This was my first M2 so I was leary, I started with a aftermarket crossmember from Paul Horton, then just bolted on all the junkyard pieces, that got me going and a roller, by the time I hit the street tubular uppers and lowers also netted me new bushing, ball joints, my junkyard rack was busted, so needed a new one from NAPA, and dropped spindles are cheap too. Yes it was cheaper to pick and choose the parts I wanted but not alot. If I had to do it again I would buy a complete kit, that said junkyard parts are great mock up. I paid $100 bucks for mine and ended up not using any of it, but it taught me alot about this type of front end. Godspeed MrC.
We all know the mustang II is not a traditional front suspension,,so lets go ahead and add the bigger disc brakes. HRP
Agree 100%. Just to add, some of the V8 M11s and Pinto V6 wagons had curb weights in the 2600- 2900 lb range. Add the driver and cargo weight, and some GVWRs were well over 3500 lbs. The cars had to p*** DOT brake test requirements, and did, with the 9 1/2" front rotors. Switching to the very common 11" Granada rotor is a good move, but not absolutely necessary in all cases.
to be clear on a couple of items and to a couple of you. I am installing a 1967 chevy 283 in the car, with the T5. I need to find my mis-type of 383 and change that. Secondly, this is just MII parts. I have a brand new Ch***is Engineering crossmember, bolted in, Heidt spindles, factory stamped A-Arms, new manual rack and pinion, new bearings and new rotors, drilled for GM wheel pattern. The rotors are new, but were with the project when I bought it. I have to buy brackets, hoses and calipers. Just want to do it right the first time. That said, looks like it might be a wash for the stock size vs up-sized rotors. yes it is a traditional site... I know that, get that and respect that. I also know that many people have run down this road and learned something while doing so. That's what I am trying to collect on. VOH
If "it's a wash for the stock size vs upsized rotors"......a gain in performance for the same money is a good deal....at least in my mind. Ray
In regards to available brakes for mII setups Is there any merit to the metric calipers having less stopping power than the earlier Camaro..... Impala calipers. I overheard a conversation that the guy basically said the metric calipers were inadequate
Okay, that's a "wash" regarding opinion. The FACTS suggest otherwise. Larger brake area = less heat build up , shorter stopping distance (all other factors being equal), likely greater future availability of parts due to volume in use, etc, etc. But if none of that matters, in your opinion, use what you have. Simple. Ray
I tend to agree with the somewhat less desirable 'metric' caliper size, especially if used with non-power brakes. IIRC, in OEM application, the metrics were always power boosted. In that regard, I adapted 12" 1979 Caddy Seville rotors to MMII spindles and made caliper brackets for the big GM ('71/'76 full size car) calipers. Those parts are essentially the same as late '80s/eraly '90s Chevy Pickup and have the 5 x 5" bolt circle I wanted in additon to large swept area. Speedway offers metric calipers with oversized pistons that improve the clamping power of the caliper. Might be worth considering since they are a "bolt on" to the various kit brackets. Ray
I had the pinto calipers and rotors and changed to the metric calipers with bigger rotors. It stopped better but not that much better.
Granada rotor, GM Metric (non-quick take up) caliper and just be done with it. If you want to play there are options with that style caliper. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Big-Bore-GM-Metric-1978-88-Brake-Caliper,25158.html Bit expensive, but interesting: http://ssbrakes.com/i-10092108-caliper-sport-twin-quick-change-aluminum-caliper.html Wilwood also offers some large bore upgrades, steel and aluminum with a 2.375" piston that could be interesting to some. http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=GM Single Piston
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