Sbc timing advance problems

Ok guys this is driving me crazy!! Never ran across anything quite like this. Here is the scoop. Fired my 327 up the other day, seems to run pretty good. I go to set the timing and no mark in sight, I go ahead and let it run for break in. Shut her down brighten up the mark with some paint. Still nowhere to be found, well it's clean up under the water pump. If I try and bring it down it back fires and dies like retarding it should. Ok to help with the confusion here is what I have. 327, mild cam, 3x2 but outer carbs are blocked off for now, old dual point mallory that I just rebuild. At tdc timing marks line right up on 0. Pull the cap and the rotor is right on 1. Anyone run across this wierd situation before? Thanks for ready and the help!

 

My first stab would be 180 off..... Sounds like it anyways

 

Yeah thought of that too, just seems to run to good to be 180 off. Worth a try though

 

you have the wrong balancer and pointer combination. some sbc's ( i think 305) have the pointer behind the water pump just like you have. chevy actually used several locations over the years


either get the correct balancer to match your pointer , or remark TDC on your current balancer

this is why i always check the timing marks while ***embling a motor

 

Time it by feel and ignore the marks. Advance it, a little at-a-time, until it pings under load, and then back off a few degrees.

 

That's exactly what I thought at first as well, because the correct tab should be spot welded on the cover. When the engine is at tdc with the current balancer and tab they do line up on 0? Both lifters are down, just doesn't make sense

 

Lol That's what I've been doing, runs great. The puzzling part is just getting to because I just can't figure it out.

 

It's just mismatched parts. It happens. Is this about where your line is?:

 

It is a common coinsurance:

 

That's got to be it! Right where it's at lol. I do have a few 305s around here must of grabbed the balancer that was off one of those! Thanks for the help and putting my mind at ease

 

The mark is just a handy reference point. As you have noticed, you can still get to a good state-of-tune, using the old ****-dyno.

 

id do.paper towel method..to get in ball park....paperctowel in number one spark plug hole...small clicks...pops out............pull valve cover....make sure number one valves close....pull cap ensure rotor is pointing to number one cylinder...make sure wires on. cap right......make new timing mark...i bet timing is off....as others said..could be 180 off......or less...maybe need top pop dist...set up on number one....on tablet sux to type on this

 

Learn how to set timing with a vacuum gauge, then make the appropriate marks on the dampener and rig up a pointer (the aftermarket ones that bolt to the timing cover should work fine). Using the vacuum gauge avoids too many trips down the road to listen for pinging under load.

dj

 

That timing cover/balancer setup IIRC was introduced in 1977 for all small blocks. It utilized a Snap-On probe that fit in that tube by the pointer to set timing. I forget exactly how it worked but it was in response to how tight things were getting in the engine compartment and for more accurate ignition timing.

 

Here's how to get it right. Place a piston stop in the number one plug hole, rotate engine until it makes contact with stop then mark your balancer at the zero mark. Now rotate the engine the opposite direction until once again hitting the stop, mark balancer at zero.
Your top dead center will be the middle of those two marks, make permanent mark there and time like normal. Here's mine

 

Remark your current balancer at the 2 o'clock position from it's present mark and it will be fine. I went through this about a month and a half ago.

 

Hey guys-were those timing covers like that ONLY on 305's?

 

hmmm.

 

Balancer may have slipped on the rubber ring, had it happen to me once, budget rebuild, grabbed the best looking balancer on the shelf, marked TDC, set tab while ***embling, broke it in, after that the engine wouldn't time based on the balancer. The rubber ring got old, allowed the outer hub to slip

 

I also like setting timing with a vacuum gauge. Sometimes we get to preoccupied with a certain degree setting, when what really matters most is where the engine performs best.

 

What I have seen the most is the 12 O'clock marked balancer goes with a long water pump. You would point your timing light straight down and between water pump and block to time on that application.

 

Why do people always throw out the 180 degrees off thing? He says it runs.. it wont run 180 off!

 

I do hope you disconnected the Vac adv hose and plugged it when you had the light hooked up. If not the signal will jump up off the scale. (it's supposed to) You are setting the initial advance which is done with the vacuum disconnected. I'd leave the light hooked up and start it with the hose reconnected to make sure that the vac adv was working correctly when the mark jumped off the scale.

 

this is the only way to make sure you know actualy tdc...and then re mark for your damper, I had the same prooblem with mine....

setting timing with vacuum works but will result in too much advance so you set the timng to the highest vac reading and then back it off 2 inches....good luck

 

Truth is there are several ways to get it right, but what Swade suggested, really is a sure fire way....also I have heard of small block Chevies, running, just barely when 180 out, not sure if that is possible...would not hurt that when you do make a mark as Swade suggested, pop the driver valve cover, make sure that the valves on number 1 are closed (rockers loose) just to ensure we are just looking at a timing issue and not a timing issue coupled with poor / incorrect valve adjustment.

 

Thanks guys, used a piston stop. Found tdc, wrapped the balancer with a timing tape and all is set, runs great and ran too good to 180 off, it happened to be a 305 balancer with the timing mark that would appear straight up. Thanks again

 

mark the inner and outer rings of the balancer and then run it and check to see if the outer ring moves in relation to the inner. If it does you might want to invest in a new balancer.

 

No need to go crazy, your ***umption of being at TDC last week was simply misguided. Next time you come across things that don't make sense, eliminate all of the ***umptions 100%. This time it was a piston stop test.

This situation of yours is the kind of stuff that makes the good even better.

 

I want to see a engine run with the distributor 180 off.
Prove to me that it can run when it's firing at the top of the exhaust stroke with both valves open on overlap.

 

Glad you found the problem, I was just fixing to ask you how you verified that the marks lined up at tdc in your earlier post.