I asked a Guy at the local Auto Zone .. "What type of oil would you put in a 1957 235 Inline 6 "... His answer.. "Well...Regular Oil is Probably Fine"... So here I am Back to HAMB... 1957 Chevy 235 Inline 6....My oil seems to have thinned were quickly..10W30....No Factory Filter on it.. It was an option that year I hear... Sooo Any suggestions..and... Maybe an Oil System Flush Product..that will work...??... Thanks Guys...
10W30 was the default choice in every garage since before your car was made. Chances are it never used anything else. Today's oil is low on zinc which can cause cam wear in high compression hot engines with stiff valve springs, not much to worry about in your case. Shell Rotella 15W40 is a popular choice for old engines. It is not expensive and does give a little more protection. Oil filters were available for your engine as an add on accessory. If you can find one and put it on it will help keep your oil clean and extend the time between oil changes. This was the bypass type filter. If you put on a modern filter (full flow) it will not be as good as the old bypass for your engine. See if you can find the correct filter and filter element. They made millions of them and they are pretty common at old car flea markets and so on. Oil change intervals with no filter used to be 1000 miles. A good reason not to use expensive oil. If you drive on paved roads and have a good air filter you might stretch it to 1500 or 2000. Flushing NOT recommended. If you can take off the pan, scrape out the sludge, and clean the oil pump screen it would do more good. You could take off the valve cover and clean out the sludge up there but you must be VERY CAREFUL to clean it all out with a vacuum cleaner or some other method. A small amount of dirt and sludge that gets down in the oil pan can plug the pump screen and burn out your bearings. So on the whole it might be better to leave everything else alone, just clean out the pan. If you don't want to take off the pan that's OK too. If the oil gets dirty fast just change it every 1000 miles.
There's a load of this Title already, use "Search"! IF your engine is an old sludged up one be carefull about overdoing the detergent, could cause it to come off in globs & clog the oil pump screnn. Wal-Mart sells "Accel" brand 10W-40 SF oil(you want pre-SM) I've seen Accel 10W-40 elsewhere that is SM or SN.
hooboy - get ready for a whole bunch of "do a search........" and "this topic has been talked to death......." responses. I run Valvoline VR-1 20w-50 in my 235 with no filter. It has a higher ZDDP content than most other off the shelf oils and I've never seen any sludge buildup or any other problems using it. This is just my opinion, I'm sure others will have theirs as well.
ZDDP: When, Where, What, Why, How? The story of ZDDP is much like the story of hot rodding itself. Increases in power produce unexpected circumstances and the need to improve durability as well as performance. By Dave Sutton Government regulations and demands for lower emissions levels become more important than power and performance. Proven components are no longer acceptable and the inevitable changes occur – not always for the best. Things seemed to be much simpler in the 1930s. Engine bearings were made from a soft tin/copper/antimony alloy, commonly referred to as babbit. This alloy is relatively inert chemically and has the ability to absorb small amounts of foreign particular material. But, as engine horsepower increased, babbit alloy surfaces proved to be inadequate to bear the increased loading on these surfaces. Harder bearings of cadmium/silver, cadmium/nickel, and copper/lead construction were developed. These bearings were much stronger, but were not as chemically inert as babbit and could be attacked by the acids generated from oil oxidation. They were also unable to absorb foreign material such as grit and wear debris into the bearing material and improvements in oil filtration were developed. Bearing corrosion inhibitors, anti-wear agents and acid inhibitor compounds were developed to protect these new bearings. Protection for bearings against both corrosive and mechanical wear was needed and many of these compounds served both functions. These compounds included sulfurized sperm oil, organic phosphates, dithiocarbonates and dithiophosphates. In 1941, the oil and gasoline additive company Lubrizol developed Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphates, or ZDDP. Commonly referred to simply as “Zinc” in today’s vernacular. ZDDP was first used in low concentrations (less than .3%) as a bearing passivator (meaning “to treat or coat a metal in order to reduce the chemical reactivity of its surface”. It also acts as an oil anti-oxidant. In addition, it was found to be a remarkably effective anti-wear agent, a true extreme pressure or EP additive for heavily loaded steel-on-steel sliding mechanisms such as camshafts and valve lifters or tappets. For years, these additives provided sufficient anti-wear service in the early days of gasoline non-detergent motor oils. Diesel engines of the time, which generally operated at lower speeds and were more massively built, did not exhibit the same wear problems. But in a gasoline engine, the valve train is more heavily stressed due to the higher engine speeds. This produces high sliding speed and friction between camshaft and lifters, which tend to be poorly lubricated since they are dependent on oil splash for lubrication. High impact loads also resulted from the reaction between cam lifter, pushrod, and the rocker. Impacts in this system start at the camshaft and ending at the valve stem were increased in severity as valve spring pressures and thus loading increased. These loads cause scuffing from metal-to-metal contact. Small additions of additives such as ZDDP were sufficient to provide anti-wear protection for these mechanical parts. Diesel engine oils contained detergent additives to combat the pollutants caused by diesel fuels and their combustion. There were many failures with heavy wear resulting particularly in the cam and tappets when attempts were first made to use diesel oils containing detergents or to introduce detergent additives into the oils of gasoline engines. Theories abounded. It was erroneously thought that these detergents were either chemically attacking the metal or that these metallic compounds were actually abrading the metal surfaces. The problem is simply real estate – there is only so much metal surfaces for the boundary layer and anti-wear additives in the oil to attach. And because most detergents do not have significant anti-wear capability, the surfaces become unprotected, and wear takes place where loads are the heaviest. To overcome this, a concentration of anti-wear additive, such as ZDDP, must be increased substantially to compete successfully with the detergent and get some measure of protection to these metal surfaces. The American Petroleum Institute (API) standards for auto and diesel oils are represented by the alphabetical codes we see on the containers. The “S” is the automotive designation and this stands for “Service.” Heavy-duty diesel oils carry a “C” designation, which stands for “Commercial.” Some are simply no longer useful: SA contains no additives and was designed for engines built before 1930; SB was for engines previous to 1951; SC for engines previous to 1967 and so on up to SH, now obsolete, which was for engines built in 1996 or older. Today we can still find SJ-for 2001 and older automotive engines, SL-for 2004 and older automotive engines and the most current SM. The API service category for SM oil reads as follows: “For all automotive engines currently in use. Introduced in 2004, SM oils are designed to provide improved oxidation resistance, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and better low-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some SM oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving.” In 1992, an API-rated SH oil contained 1,200 parts per million (ppm) of phosphorus; in 1996 SJ contained 1,000 ppm. It was not until 2001, when the rating went to SL, that we all started to see camshaft problems appear. In 2001, SL-rated oil still contained 1,000 ppm of phosphorous, and it is the phosphorous that limits are set on. But this limits the amount of ZDDP an oil manufacturer can use. The rating was changed due to demands for increased engine cleanliness standards. Higher levels of detergents were introduced to meet these standards and camshaft problems began. It was not until 2004, when SM rated oils, with their limited 800 ppm phosphorus were introduced, that cam failures greatly increased. Why then, you ask, have API standards pushed for higher detergent levels and lower levels of ZDDP? ZDDP attacks or “poisons” catalytic converters. The same attraction properties that allow it to adhere to or “plate” cams and lifters also happens to the catalyst in converters, thus rendering them ineffective. Conversely, detergents have the same “cleaning effect” on the catalyst as they do on metal surfaces inside the engine. I must point out that these phosphorus level mandates are on SAE 10W-30 and lower viscosity grades only. Most higher viscosity grades have adopted lower phosphorus content levels, but it was not mandated. They still must meet the higher detergent and dispersant levels to meet the API cleanliness requirements of an SM rating. The then-current CJ-4 rated diesel oil had a phosphorus limit of 1,200 ppm. There were no previous limits to the amount of phosphorus or sulfur in “C” rated oils. But the high level of detergents and dispersants in diesel oil still compete with the ZDDP for metal surface areas. ZDDP is a “class” of additives today, not just one particular chemical. These additives are the predominant anti-wear agents. Because diesel engines tend to run considerably hotter around the piston rings, ZDDP tends to decompose and produces a lacquer on cylinder walls. But, because of their heavy duty design and superior metallurgy, they have fewer wear problems than their gasoline counterparts. For simpler diesel oil, a more stable, less potent form of ZDDP can be used. When developing multipurpose motor oils, for gasoline engines and high-speed passenger car diesel engines, careful decisions must be made in selecting the form of ZDDP, or a balanced mixture of 2 or more types may be used. This is also true when comparing break-in oil, API rated motor oils for street use and true racing oils. A different type or types are used to control the rate of time the additives work to “plate” and “maintain” their protective barrier shield. Concerns for the poisoning effect caused by ZDDP to catalytic converters have caused restrictions for its use in some countries. Japan has maintained a maximum limit on phosphorus of 0.05% for many years, while most countries have a limit set at 0.1%. In October of 2010, API SN/ILSAC GF-5 oils hit the shelves. The requirements for an SN rating are the same 800 ppm maximum of phosphorus, but a new test has been added. A phosphorus retention test that may require the use of different or alternative ZDDP compounds. The effects of these alternate additives on older flat tappet camshafts and valve train are just beginning to be seen, but can include roller camshaft wear! More changes are slated to come. California is even debating legislation that would require the complete removal of some additives, including ZDDP. Some of today’s motor oils can have strong negative effects on older, non-roller lifter design engines as we all have found. It becomes more important as valve train loads increase to use oils that are designed specifically for flat tappet camshafts, as in the use of high performance camshafts and high-pressure valve springs. Dave Sutton’s sources for this column include Lake Speed, Jr – Certified Lubrication Specialist & Member of the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers; The American Petroleum Institute web-site; www.gf-5.com website; and the “SAE Automotive Lubricants Reference Book.” You can reach Dave at dsutton@enginebuildermag.com. Example Chart:
10 or 15 /50 no synthetic one with plenty of zinc no detergents only with new engines deisel oil is good. has got all the good shit in it.
Any of the current racing oils as they have proper amounts of zinc and such for flat tappet cams. Run the same weight they ran when new. The current racing oils are so good any brand will do well in old motors. Change it every 3,000 miles.
Back in the '60's, when I worked in a gas station after school, we had 30wt., 40wt., 50wt and 10-30wt.. 40 and 50 came in non-detergent. In California, where the climate is always mild, we used 10-30 for new cars. 30 for older cars, 40 for older cars that smoked and used oil. If the car never came with a filter we used non-detergent oil.
Add ZDDP to a good Pennsylvania crude or whatever replaces it base stock, Pennzoil, Valvoline, High Mileage maybe, 5w-40
I am with brad penn.its american made and has the correct zinc content in it.It has never failed me yet
I worked in gas stations in the sixties and everything was 10W30. We kept 20W20 for those who wanted it and straight 30 for the cheapskates. Bulk oil in glass bottles with tin spouts on top went out about the time I started. But 10W30 was the default choice. By that I mean you put it in unless the customer asked for something different. This was in the typical car on the road then, which was built in the fifties or sixties.
Absolutely use Brad Penn racing oil, 10w-30 in colder months, 20w-50 in summer. If not Brad Penn, then Pennzoil GT racing oil.
So when I was about 14 (1965) I started at Stash's Fina in Houston. Now I spent every minute with my head buried in the motor manuals when I wasn't looking downblouse or upskirt! So I knew you put distilled water in the battery fill jugs. Well I looked around and couldn't find any such water so I asked "Stash", hey is that distilled water in the battery jugs. He said Lil Hoop, the longer it sits, da-stiller it gets! My early lesson about gas stations and fluid usage. And I dreaded the invention of panty hose. I was glad when I graduated to the Humble station where they actually had the "right stuff". Hoop
We did the same 30 w in summer,20 w in winter, if it had a filter detergent,non if it didn't have a filter.
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