Welding brackets on a rear end/help needed

I want to weld brackets for springs,shocks and ladder bars on a Chevy rear axle.I've never welded on a rear before,and I remember someone telling me once that you shouldn't weld something with bearings still in it.Is this true?Any advice would be greatly appreciated.Thanks.

 

It's best to pull the axles and bearings,,but if you are not going to and are using a mig, wrap some wet rags around the axle housing and keep moving around so as not to build up to much heat.

Switch sides and let it cool as much as possible. HRP

 

be sure not to hook your ground lead to an axle

 

take it apart ,clean it up,don't weld too long in one place---you will do fine...

 

You want a bare housing so you can apply proper weld penetration, and that creates heat. While welding, the tubes will warp (sometimes slightly, sometimes a lot) and you should have the housing trued after you finish weld it.

 

I'm about to do the same. I pulled the axles and 3rd member on my Ford 8" and clamped it securely to the frame table. This should prevent warpage. I'm still gonna jump around and try to disperse the heat. Those axle housings aren't very thick!

 

Too much heat will affect the metal of the bearings, but as raengines pointed out, never attach the ground cable to an axle, or any part that requires the welding current to go through a bearing. There will be microscopic arcing between the bearings and races, the results of which are rough spots on the bearings, which will lead to early failure.

 

Just bear in mind welding anything that a jig or any other kind of hold-down won't prevent the shrink from wanting to happen. Depending how the tension builds up it could move when you remove it from the fixture.

For keeping an axle straight, welding all the way around the tube is first prize. Otherwise heating the opposite side will help - this method can be used to straighten fairly heavy sections.

 

X2 always weld an equal amount, exactly opposite from the welds on your brackets. That's your best chance of keeping it straight.

 

Any tips before I strike an arc?

 

Yes. De-burr the holes now, while it's easy. Also remove that hot rolled, black stuff in the area to be welded.

 

And weld all the way around, even though your brackets don't go all the way around.

 

Wait...what the heck is going on there anyway?

 

IF you have access to a housing narrowing jig, bolt the end caps on and run the large diam. rod through, and you will see if there is any misalignment. Heat the side you want to pull over, by a quarter size spot cherry red and let it cool on its own. I watched a guy straighten a flag pole that was bent just with heat alone. It wasnt much of a bend, but pretty impressive.
Maybe chamfer the edges so you can get more filler material in.

 

Land Rover Discovery trailing arms.....................

How about if I lay 1-1/2" welds, alternating on each side and let it cool 20-30 minutes between welds? 5/16" plate to that paper thin axle housing, I need some pretty intense heat!

 

The cooling time may help, but ultimately it is down to the total heat in. Better to accept this and work with it (by welding or heating all the way around) than try to fight it.

 

You have quite a bit of welding to do on that housing. I have fixtures to narrow and straighten rears and I have tried to see what method distorts less.
There was a thread on here showing how to straighten a 9 in ,after seeing it done this is the method of choice.
It uses a jack to bend the housing in a fixture.
When I take the axles out it seems to want to move around more depending on where and how much is welded. I mostly tig weld so this may play into it as well.
With the axles in it provides some sort of support,when I finish I plan to bend it back anyway,but with the axles in it usually moves a lot less.
If you have any misalignment you will see it when you remove or install the axle.
As mentioned in another post ground the welder to the housing not on the axle.
If the axle can be installed and removed easily you did well,if not just bring it to someone who can true it up,local race ch***is shop can help here.
Looks good btw.

 

Can't wait to see the finished rear suspension and how it works!
Should be nice and flexible with those Landy arms.
I'll add my name to the guys suggesting you lay a bead in opposing steps right around the housing...even where there is no plate.
It keeps the heat even around the tube and in the end you can grind it flat again anyway!

Wondering...will the rearend ride far enough up in the notch to allow you to bolt some 1x2 tubing flat along the bottom of the opening to reinforce the frame?
It would make a huge difference in frame strength to do that.
Your notch depth is putting a lot of stress on the upper rail at the top of the notch.
Just a thought...

 

I hope you are going to reinforce the upper spring mounts.

 

Like others have said, those tubes are going to warp. You will be concentrating the welds on the top side and welding near the middle, what that means is that the heat shrink will be topside, the ends will be pulled upward and because it is relatively close to the center just a small amount of shrinkage will translate to a big change at the end.
There is no such thing as minimizing the shrinkage because of skipping around or waiting between welds etcetc, that is a feelgood notion. It takes a certain amount of heat to weld metal together and you will need a lot of heat to weld those brackets. A lot of it. You cannot marginalize that amount of heat, the very best you can do is not get stupid with it like lingering at a particular spot etc.
Like a couple others suggest, make your welds go all the way around the tube.
I narrow rears on a regular basis and i jack the heat up like crazy (TIG) and lay 3 littlefinger sized beads, roll the housing 180deg and repeat; then i roll 90deg, then another 180deg. I don't know how many i have done in 30years but there are only 3 nearly perfect ones that i can recall, all except for a couple are worthy of bragging about and they are dome with the very best of narrowing jigs etc. Even with my equipment i'd be uncertain about the outcome of what you are going to do.

 

I would also grind a 45 on the brackets to give more surface area for the weld to penetrate.

 

I was going to suggest a healthy weld prep also


jeff

 

Why such heavy steel for the brackets??

dave

 

Tack it up and do the welding in steps, waiting for the housing to cool to touch before doing some more. If you try to do it all in one sitting, you can easily warp the housing. When the housing starts to get hot to the touch, walk away and do something else for an hour. Personally I've never dis***embled a rear end just to weld brackets. I'm not saying you shouldn't...just that it may not be imperative. This won't work well for production shops but for your average hotrodder it works well. I've don my share of rear end welding over the years when I was one of the few that were able to weld brackets for buddies and I've never had a problem. JMHO

 

Had to jump in, I can see where welding brackets towards the center of a housing would make a big change at the end of a tube. What about when welding on leaf spring perches which are a couple of inches from the end of the housing? Still enough distortion not to bend the tube?

 

1200 lb Model T roadster.

I don't think it's necessary. It's a very small/light car and it'll be powered by a turbo'd 4 cyl. The frame is overbuilt and every stress point is fishplated.

Yep!

I'm building this car for next to nothing and that's what I had available.

First, I'm gonna check around to see who can do it and how much to true the housing up after the welding. The housing will be securely clamped to the frame table. Rags soaked in ice water wrapped around the housing on both sides of each bracket. Short welds, alternating to each side with adequate cooling time between welds and welding all the way around the housing. Not much more I can do! I'll post results when it's all said and done.

 

Thanks for posting this. I am close to doing this too, and I never thougt about it warping . Was just going to tack the brackets and take the rearend to a welding shop to get welded. I just keep learning from you guys.

 

Well , I'll share what I did to straighten my housing after warping it. I took my grinder w/a thick wheel & ground a groove opposite the brackets , welded it up , took 3 grooves/p***es on 1 side , 2 on the other , just kept checking the "feel" of how the axle slid in & out , took a while. How straight is it ? Have put 35000 miles on the car w/ no bearing or seal problems, so it must be pretty straight !

dave

 

Thanks for all the information.I think I can do a good job of it with the tips you guys gave.Thanks again.

 

Update:

I finished the rearend housing today. Took most of the day. I clamped the **** outta the rear to the frame table and wrapped the tubes on each side of the weld with rags soaked in ice water. Then, I'd weld a 1" bead, blow it with compressed air and let the tube cool to the touch. Alternate to the other side, do the same thing, then alternate back. Took awhile but the axles and bearings still slide in quite well. Don't think I warped it at all. I checked on having the housing trued up and the guy was talking $200-$300............not!





Slighty OT but I also threw together a quick and dirty frame rotisserie. Had a couple of those funky HF 3-wheeled engine stands laying around. Had to make a couple of mods. The main bars needed to be squared up, I made a removeable brace and added swivel casters.







Built some mounting structures outta 1" square tubing and s**** metal, tacked 'em to the frame rails and bolted 'em to the engine stand heads.





I was gonna add a stick of tubing between the 2 stands but this thing is stable and rolls great so that wasn't needed. Now I can flip it when I need too and roll it into the backyard for blasting!