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welding questions - new to TIG welding

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kscarguy, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    Finally started using the TIG welder.

    I am a newbie to TIG welding. I watched many of the tips and tricks welding videos. I am struggling with the initial setup and use of a Miller Syncrowave 200.

    I started practicing on 1/4" steel. I first set the amps to 135, then 150 and then 165. The beads (without wire) look fine, but the 2% tungsten mushroomed just past the point. I did touch the steel, did that cause it?

    I am sticking the tungsten out about 1/8 from the cup, can I go further out?

    I can't seem to make nice nickles, just a lot of close circles. Too much amps, not enough, wrong speed...what am I doing wrong?

    Where should the argon be set? I have it at 25.

    The welds, without filler rod, just look small and flat (3/32 tungsten), I can't tell if I am getting any penetration. I did run off the edge and it melted the edge easily.

    Any advice...?
     
  2. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,586

    117harv
    Member

    I need some tig welding tips. here is a thread with some info that will help. There are dozens more with great info...the search function is your friend:)
     
  3. ** Best advice is someones tag line ............. HOW DO I GET TO CARNIGIE HALL??????? PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.

    good luck have fun ,
     
  4. Dane
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,351

    Dane
    Member
    from Soquel, CA

    I have a similar problem with same machine. I'm going to try a larger diameter tip to see if I can get more heat into the puddle. I've looked into the books but didn't see any help. Maybe some of the old dogs here can lend some knowledge.
     
  5. You didn't say if you were trying to do a fillet weld, a lap weld, a butt joint etc. This will vary the amperage slightly.
    So I will give you a GENERAL answer;
    for 1/4" Mild Steel, I would set the machine around 250-325 and work the pedal. Either an 1/8 or 3/32" 2% thoriated tungsten ground to a point (or a 2% ceriated or 1.5% lanthanum if you want the latest and greatest). And a 1/2" cup. If you touch the metal or dip it in the puddle, stop and re grind it on a CLEAN wheel - not one used for grinding metal.
    20 psi on your Argon will be fine
    You are set up for straight polarity correct?

    EDIT ~ Just noticed you have a Syncro 200 - max that baby at 200 as 1/4" is the upper limit for that machine!
     
  6. Your tungsten is too small for that amperage - that's why it mushroomed up.
    Too small for 1/4" plate - it is pretty thick .
     
  7. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    I am just running beads on flat steel to get the feel for the machine. Polarity is correct.

    I tried to drop the amperage to 115 for the small 3/32 tungsten, but it still mushrooms.

    At the lower amperage, I ran 2 inches without any rod and the point still looked great. I then added rod and the point looks terrible. I don't think I touched. It also mushroomed.

    I do get it sharp, but seem to loose the point quite quickly.

    Should I try thinner metal to run beads on?
     
  8. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,350

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    I'm still learning myself but from what I've gathered, it is VERY easy to dip that tip in the puddle. once you do it soaks up the puddle like a wick! you have to clean the tungsten back beyond the contaminated area, not just regrinding a point. you can't have any steel left on it! I went through tungsten like crazy at first!

    as for thickness, I would definitely try something thinner as the 1/4" is actually more than your machine can handle. get 1/8. remember, as a general rule you want 1 amp per thousandth of steel thickness. other materials vary in amperage. 1/8" steel will use a 1/16" or so tungsten. .125" so around 125 amps.
     
  9. Yea, try some 16 gauge
     
  10. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    I just cranked it to 200 amps with a new tungsten that I sharpened and ran two 6" beads with no problems. Tungsten stayed sharp. I think I was too low in the amps, even at 165. Definite penatration.
     
  11. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    How do you cut off the contaminated tungsten tip without a diamond cutting wheel?
     
  12. You can just clip it off with a pair of side cutters it is very brittle and will just snap off.
     
  13. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    OK, I'll try snipping it off. I think my old tungsten was contaminated well past the point as suggested. Other than that, TIG welding is fun and easy. I will have this mastered in 30 minutes...but, not the first 30 :)
     
  14. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 9,109

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    If the tip balls it sounds like polarity..If it mushrooms and looks like a wart you contaminated it..Max amps is roughly decimal equiv of dia of electrode...
     
  15. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    Yes, it was definitely contaminated. I cut off the top 1/2" of the tungsten (right to where the color changed) re-ground it, and it worked like a Studebaker champ. Thanks!
     
  16. I must respectfully disagree with this statement

    3/32" are good for 150-250 amps and 1/8" are good for 250-400 amps when used in DC mode. At least that is what Miller recommends
     
  17. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    How / can you get the roll of nickels look with steel?

    I tried 140 amps, 3/32, 1/8" plate. After a few failed attempts and one busted tungsten, I got nice welds with added rod. My welds look nice, but are basically smooth. I tried adding the rod a little at a time to "cool" the puddle. Do I need bigger rod, to play with the pedal, or what?
     
  18. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,575

    oj
    Member

  19. A few hundred hours of practice.
     
  20. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,985

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    QUOTE=K13;8765461]A few hundred hours of practice.[/QUOTE]

    That's only true if your a quick learner. Other than that I've had a few old timers tell me their learning curve was measured in years:eek::D

    Frank
     
  21. afaulk
    Joined: Jul 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,194

    afaulk
    Member

    I sharpen the tungsten on a belt grinder with the tip parallel to the direction the belt is running and put a nice sharp point with no radial grinding marks. Practice, practice, practice. Also your gas flow does not have to be that high (25)
     
  22. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 32,345

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's been a long time since I had a chance to TIG weld, I do remember you need to keep a Tungsten ONLY grinding wheel, that will give you a clean grind every time. Bob :)
     
  23. child9
    Joined: Mar 25, 2013
    Posts: 8

    child9
    Member
    from Austin

    You may need to push more rod into the puddle. There is a tips and tricks vid about filler rod method where the repetitive finger motion used to allow you to rhythmically push the filler rod is discussed. It also may help to watch the puddle with your peripheral while actually looking behind the puddle as you move along. This should allow you to see that you have consistent weld width and help you make it consistent as you move.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  24. littlehankster
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 10

    littlehankster
    Member
    from Niota, TN

    I'm not sure where some of these guys are getting there info. Saying you machine is only good for max 1/4. Are they trying to get full penetration or what....lol Its funny how the welders at the nuke plant i work at tig weld 1.5" thick wall pipe with only 150 amps all day everyday. Ive been tig welding for 25 years, I own a lincoln precision tig 185. I have never wished for a bigger machine on steel, now aluminum is a different story. Now to answer some of your questions...

    First off you must be patient when starting your weld. Your welds prettiness will depend on your consistency of dip (filler material) move (tig torch). To much coffee will tell on you when tig welding. It will show any hand shake. Give that pedal a mash to get you started. You must wait for material to start puddling as wide as you are going to want your weld to be. Once material starts getting some heat you will want to slowly back off your pedal to keep puddle a consistent size, special when you start coming towards the end of your material.

    Your problem with the tungsten balling up is one of two things. 1 your polarity is in reverse. 2. when you are adding you filler rod you are adding to much and your tungsten will suck it right up.

    Nickels: you will not get a weld looking like nickels on steel. You need to try aluminum if you want the nickels. Your weld will look like circles on steel.

    Argon settings: If your welding in your shop 25 is fine. You can probably turn down little more. But remember the gas is what is shielding your weld. Turn it off to see what happens if you get a little wind blowing buy. So better tad high then to low.

    Tungsten Diameter: 3/32" is good for your machine. You would only need bigger if welding aluminum. Tungsten will stay sharper longer with the 1/8". I personally like the 3/32" better.

    Distance tungsten can stick out: Rule of thumb is the width of the mouth on the cup. So if you have a 3/8" opening you can stick it out 3/8". Again this is rule of thumb.

    No filler material: Your welds will be just flat, because you are not adding any filler material. Your puddle is the penetration.

    If you really want to get good. Google walking the cup tig welding. And learn this technique.

    And for those who want to argue. I posted a picture. So when you can lay them down like this free handed ...... hit me up.
     

    Attached Files:

  25. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    Thanks for all the information. It is helpful.

    I can get circles but they are just really close together, not evenly spaced. I'll keep practicing. Tig is similar to gas welding, it just happens so much quicker that with a flame.

    I am sure I am touching the weld and messing up the trungsten tip. I am getting sick of sharpening the tungsten already. I did try using a drill to slowly spin the tungsten and that does make it much easier to sharpen it.

    If I do everything right, how long should the point normally last?


    I was welding as nice as you, but then I woke up.
     
  26. child9
    Joined: Mar 25, 2013
    Posts: 8

    child9
    Member
    from Austin

    I use a "cheater" lens in my Miller Elite happy face. 2x magnification can help with the vision when doing smaller/thinner stuff.

    [​IMG]

    The dimes are liked by all, but don't actually make the weld better. Sometimes, depending on the type of joint and the difference in the components I try a continuous filler rod feed method. This might be wierd though and I've personally never heard or seen anyone do this.

    [​IMG]

    In fact, if anyone has any good reasons why I shouldn't do this aside from the potential of cooling the puddle too much, let me know.
     
  27. 41GASSER
    Joined: Aug 2, 2009
    Posts: 188

    41GASSER
    Member

    A great deal goes into making a strong and pretty weld with a TIG welder.

    Clean material
    proper fit of parts
    proper setting on your welder
    proper shield gas type and flow rate
    correct filler rod
    Properly prepared tungsten tip
    Correct distance and angle from tip to material
    steady hand
    good ground
    correct amount of heat and consistent controlled feed of filler rod
    Good quality helmet with shade set correctly, you have to see what your doing, wear some magnifying glasses if necessary or put a light on your work

    I like to keep my elbows against my torso this helps me limit jerky movements and control the torch better. On very fine work I will support my forearm on something so only my hand is moving the torch. Consider trying a count while welding. If you count a given amount of seconds and feed your filler rod and repeat. Several good books are available as well as youtube videos to help.

    Practice and then practice again and again. Best of luck, once you get it you will love the results.

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  28. kscarguy
    Joined: Aug 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,611

    kscarguy
    Member

    YIKES ~ I seem to be going through argon at an alarming rate. I started with 1000 psi and I am down to 500 in an a total of maybe 1.5 hours of welding time. Is this normal consumption? (or do I have a leak) I have the gauge set at 20 psi.


    I checked the Argon tank with soapy water and it is leaking right where the valve is screwed into the tank. Son of a $#@!. It is a long trip to get it exchanged.

    The welding company will replace the tank for no charge. I guess I'd better use what is left before it all leaks out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  29. Are you sure it's "psi" and not "Cfm"?
    You want a Cfm regulated flow.
     
  30. Hmmm, the manufacturer of the machine - that's where. from their spec sheet;
    Syncrowave® 200
    The Syncrowave 200 is a Squarewave power source package that provides you with professional performance at an economical price.
    MATERIAL TYPE - Steel
    Max 1/4 in (6.4 mm)

    Min 0.020 in (0.5 mm)

    and yeah, if you are trying to weld something that requires 1/4" steel for a structural purpose, I would want full penetration in order to not have the weld be the weakest part of the object. Putting a thin little 1/6" penetration bead on 1/4" material really serves no purpose.

    And Really - they are welding 1.5" thick material at 150 amps? Must be the guys that worked at San Onofre Nuclear plant and caused the shut down. :eek: In fact I can't imagine ANYONE welding 1.5" thick material with a TIG, or did you mean 1.5" diameter pipe, in which case even thick wall schedule 80 is only .200" thick in which case 150 amps would suffice.

    But then again maybe they know something I don't, I've only been welding with a TIG for 40 years and learn something everyday
     

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