I have a 1930 Model AA that is in pretty rough shape. I'd like to get a donor vehicle that has pretty much everything I need to put into the AA. From what I've read, I can still use the AA frame and the cab, I just need everything else. I'd like to get a good running donor but there isn't much information that I've found that give me a one stop shop on it. I'd like to keep the ci of the engine low so I don't lose too much room in the cab. I don't want anything with a computer. I would prefer something from the '70s and on to rip apart. I don't know if it's possible, I'm a FNG just trying to learn. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Some thoughts: 1. go to hot rod shows, seek out the old guy's driving traditional rods, ask and learn from them, they've been there done that. 2. Buy and read Tex Smith's book on building hot rods. There are ALOT of screwed up suspensions out there that handle like crap. People have been making cars go straight for over a 100 years, it's not rocket science. Some pre-reading will go along way! Also buy som old '30s '40s era "Motors" books, or any other car books from that era, they have a ton of info on both straight axle and IFS suspensions. Learn about bump steer, cross steer, drag link steering, caster, king pin inclination angle, panhard rods, etc. 3. The wishbones on my AA chassis fits a regular model A front axle, but be careful, the thickness of the axle where the wishbone connects varied over the years. Just measure it before you buy an axle. (dropped I'm assuming) 4. Z the rear, use an A spring from Speedway. Be very careful on how you design the rear suspension. Again, reading is key. The number 1 screw up is to get rid of the torque tube and split the radius rods to the frame. Don't do it without research! search this site for how to set up a radius rod rear. My opinion: if you want the radius rods split to the rails look, then build a four link with heavy duty tie rod ends using the stock radius rods for the lower links and tuck the upper links between the rails so they cannot be seen. But that's just one option, there are many more good ways to do it out there, just remember the next tip: 5. Trust the factory engineers, they knew what they were doing! Make sure you know why Ford did what they did before modifing the suspension, then realize how your desired modifications are going to screw up what Henry already thought of at the turn of the last century and how to make his suspension articulate with your modifications! 6. Brakes: again trust the factory engineers, only now I'm talking about '50s, '60s engineers. Bendix style drums are far superior to the pinned-at-the-bottom old style, that said, the old ones can be adjusted to work satisfactoraly (but no where near a modern car). Look at the master cylinder bore to wheel cyl bore or disc piston dia. of various cars that weigh about the same as yours and mimic it. Generaly speaking, roughly match the hyd piston diamenters and the pedal / master cylinder ratio (should be around 6-7:1). 7. Look at what the old guys have built and drive, Not the rat rods. Albiet, some rat rods are well engineered, but most are not. 8. Engine: anything that is cheap, but not an SBC or anything newer than, say '73. For example, a "newbie" to hot rods running a 235 Chevy 6 is much more impressive than running a store bought SBC, even if its a bad ass, 500 HP SBC. Just some thoughts.....New guys can build great rods, just read first, ask the old guys, and in the end just try it, it'll work or it'll break, either way you'll learn something! Kipp
Unless you are going to build it as a truck, I suggest that you get rid of the big heavy chassis and put your body over a model A car chassis or build your own. All the rear end stuff including suspension is not required and is not similar to car stuff. Donor car stuff is probably not all that much good to you just purchase the stuff you need. I am sure an engine and tranny plus diff can be found on Craiglist or even our for sale section here. Potentially you just end up with way too much junk to dispose of unless you are setup for that and have the space etc. There are quite a number of pickups being built here on the HAMB and some were at one time AA trucks. Do the searches and ask the questions both here and else where.
You can buy rolling model a chassis pretty cheep. Bolt your body up and you'll have a good starting point
Thanks a lot for the suggestions. Is it necessary to Z the frame and lower it? I'm interested in keeping it close to original looking. The most I may do in terms of modifications is chopping the top, but I'm up in the air if I even want to do that. I like the H.A.M.B. because people are innovative and can take a hood ornament and build a car around it for less than $5k. I have a restricted budget so I want to prove the people wrong that tell me I can't and build one on the cheap without it being a Rat. I want it to be safe and personalized to me. I have Model "A" restoration experience and I am a fan of how well Fords have withstood the test of time, so I don't mind keeping things close to original looking. I still have a few more months before I can dig into it, so, in the mean time, I'll be digging in the books! Thanks.
My intent was to keep it as a truck and use the heavy frame if it's still usable. I'm going to go to a local "speed shop" and ask around and I'll have to look around to see what I can find. My thought was that people are selling engines for $500 on CL and you can buy a whole truck for the same price running on CL. A running vehicle just seemed to make more sense to me if I could pull everything off of it. But, like you said, I don't really have the space for two vehicles and if I can price everything out from a junk yard or speedway cheaper, then why not just do it that way. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm taking notes!
Are you talking about a new rolling chassis out of Speedway or the like, or is there another place to get a rolling chassis with a newer axle, brakes and suspension? I don't want to spend $5k on a chassis, I'd like to keep my budget well below that.
No he means used original like the $400 dollar running and driving stock chassis he bought....or the $200 dollar rolling chassis he just bought.....Damn J....I might have to rob ya
Last week there was a hamber stuck with a running 1934 truck chassis. No idea of his location or the thread though.
That truck frame will work just fine. The price is right and it will be plenty strong. Keep scouting craigslist for an early (pre '70) sbc for your least expensive option. But who knows? Once you start networking anything could show up.
I drive a 1930 Banger 65-70mph on the freeway everywhere everyday. A buick V6 fits will neat & VERY GM user freindly/very GM interchangable. This is the lowest your gonna get it in the rear without body modifications. I'd find a $1000 running stock A chassis, elec fuel pump, 94 V8 carb, 16" wires & 235/85/16 tires for the rear & Juice brakes & drop axle, & NO SPLIT WISHBONES.
Well, I'm getting the whole truck for free, plus the parts that go with it and many more. The guy that pulled this one (1930) and a 1928-29 out of the woods too the better of the two and was just going to throw the '30 away. No one wants to touch it except me. I guess I have a soft spot and like the punishment, but the HAMB is giving me the confidence that I can rub a nice ride in their faces for cheaper and quicker then they'll get theirs done. I also know some mechanics in NY (I'm in MD) that may have some stuff, but I gotta get up there when the snow melts for a few days and start talking to people. That, along with the HAMB and I should be able to move forward as planned this summer.
That would be an awesome goal to be able to drive everywhere in my AA. I'm not planning on Z frame, just a normal frame. I like the later heavy duty looking AA tires, but I think I have access to some wires if the heavy duties turn out to be junk. I have read some split wishbone threads and I'm not too sure if that's at my level yet, so we'll see how it goes. But, I'll definitely take a running stock A chassis into consideration as an option. Thanks.
I'd love to see AA wheels, single on the back, on a setup just like my coupe. Everything all gloss black would look bad ass.
Yeah, I think it has a single wheel set up right now. I'm going to try and keep the original patina on the cab and everything because I want it to look like I just pulled it out of the woods. I'd like to keep a lot of the same gas/brake pedal and the foot rest, stick shift, e-brake handle, gauge cluster in the middle of the dash....I think at most if I paint anything, it's going to be the dash flat black, BUT, I may change my mind.
I'm confused. What look are you going for? A stock ride height rusty rat rod? Or at least a hi-boy rust bucket? Is it to be used as a weekend hot rod or a daily driver / work truck that can haul / carry things? I really like low dollar rods that use stock parts from various vehicles and a builder that figures out how to make them all work together. But one thing I would NOT omit from the project is paint. Every one has their own opinion and in the end yours is the only one that counts but paint, even rattle can, goes along way to saying this is a well engineered well build hot rod, instead of this is a piece of s--t I slapped together one weekend. Some ideas: If your going to leave it as a hi-boy / semi stock ride height, then a long, 10' or more, wooded stake bed like the original, front fenders, cab and hood painted red (nice color hides body imperfections relatively well) with the AA wheels, dual in back, and a ride height that looks correct with the tall wheels looks very, very good. Use to see a number of trucks done this way in the '90s. Very classy and very cool. And they are very usable to haul stuff. If that's the idea then I would recommend the following to keep costs down: 1) find any 3/4 or 1 ton donor truck, blown motor, rolled, etc. from the '60s through the '80s (dually is best to run the dual AA wheels on) transfer the parrallel spring rear suspension and rear end to the AA chassis. You may be better off running steelies from a latter period, again dual out back. Rear end width is not a concern with a flat bed. The less picky you can be, then the lower the cost. 2) keep the stock front end. Find spindles, or better yet the whole truck, wrecked etc. from a 1/2 ton Ford P/U '64 through '73 for drums, '74 through '79 for discs. Ford used the same king pins from '64 through '79. The pins are roughly .040" larger than the old Ford king pins (I believe AA pins are same as pass car pins, but a quick look at Snyders or MACs will verify), bore out the axle to accomodate the latter ford pins. Now the latter Ford spindle king pin boss height is ~.250" taller than the old Ford axle, so make a spacer, ie. a really thick washer, and whala! modern Bendix or disc brakes for cheap! If you look around and find a truck that was recently running, then you can reuse the bearings, wheel cyl. etc. Take the latter Ford tie rods, and weld them to a piece of black pipe to make one tie rod. Use cross link steering and if I remember correctly, the center link on the latter Ford steering has tapperd holes in it where the tie rods connect, use this in your new tie rod on the passenger side so you have a place to attach the drag link. So from pass side to drivers side your tie rod should be comprised of the tie rod end, about 6" in, the piece with the hole for attaching the drag link, a piece of black pipe or solid round stock approx 40" and on the drivers side the other tie rod end. Weld it all up or have it welded if you don't trust your own welding. or slip the pipe over the other pieces, weld, then drill through the pipe and the other pieces, put in 3/8 bolts and cotter pin the nuts. That way if your weld breaks the bolts will keep the thing together. With cross link steering you'll need a panhard rod, agian, tie rod ends and a piece of pipe. The only problem with the 1/2 ton spindles is the 5 bolt lug pattern, It won't match the dually wheel set up of the rear very well. You could look at 3/4 ton Ford spindles, I don't know how their king pins would fit the A axel. If they can be made to fit, then that's a better way to go. Hell if they fit then just find a 3/4 ton 60's Ford for the whole project. other wise, get the same type of steelies for the front just with the correct bolt pattern or make wheel adapters, which you will need anyways if you run the inner dually wheel up front. Take a look at any dually front end and you'll see large spacers to kick the mounting flange way out. Bye the way, 8 bolt lug patterns are the same for all makes, Ford, Chev, Dodge and all years, at least up to '90, that's where my knowledge stops. Wishbones: If you can figure out a way to keep the wishbone in tact with the center ball mount to the frame that's best, other wise split the bones but keep the ends as close as possible to the center line of the frame. Insert the tie rod ends from that 3/4 or 1/2 ton donor truck in the bones and cut the tapered hole off the steering arms. Weld the tappered holes to a bracket on the frame and bolt the wishbone ends to it via the tie rod ends. By the way, you can ream your own holes where ever you need to using a 7 degree tapper ream. I'm advocating tie rod ends over spherical rod ends only because I'm assuming the donor trucks will have good tie rod ends in them, therefore won't have to buy them. If the tie rod ends are good but the rubber is shot, you can buy just the rubber pieces from the auto parts store or I think I bought mine from speedway. Use the manual steering box from the 1/2 Ford p/u. If it's an eary one, '60s, then run the entire steering column as well. The box will sit on top of the frame which looks goofy on a typical rod, but should be fine on a fendered "work" truck such as this. If you need to build a steering column, then muffler pipe and low RPM flanged bearings from Ace hardware is the way to go. just find a pipe that the bearing fits into and tack weld it to the pipe. Or if you have the AA steering column use it. Engine: what every you find cheap and running. If it's big push the body back a bit and built a custom hood with no hood sides, or recess the fire wall to accomodate. Buy some Fiberglass front fenders and either locate short running boards that stop at the rear of the cab or build some out of wood, stained oak looks real nice, and will tie in with the wooden stake bed. The AA chassis should still have the running board mounts off the side of the frame, so use them, some carrage bolts and fenders and bam, running boards, done. Build a woodend flat bed and put stained wood stake sides on it. Done. Pop for a new chrome grill shell and a Walker radiator. headlights from speedway mounted on a stock or dropped headlight bar. Fill the top of the A cab in with the roof of something from the junk yard that has approx the same bow in it as the A cab. Don't chop it. If the truck is at or near stock ride height a chop top looks dumb. Besides you'll enjoy the leg room with the stock height seats! esp. if you end up recessing the fire wall. When it's all assembled, remove leaves from the front spring as necessary to achieve the desired ride height. Use tubular shocks in all four corners. Strip the donar truck, preferably one from the 60's of all the electrical switches, choke cable, wiper motor, heater etc. these old knobs will look good in the A dash. If it looks right, ie a '64 Ford, you can use the entire gauge panel, but be careful, some latter gauge panels in an A look good, but most look stupid. otherwise, fill the dash and cut holes for standard 2 1/8" guages. Don't worry about a speedo, install a tach and figure out how many RPM equates to 55 MPH and guage your speed from that. Mount a stock gas tank from anything under the bed, hopefully the donor truck will have an under chassis one, other wise, just get one from the junk yard. Front end alignment: Tools: Torch, carpenter's level, one of those small round levels with the pointer and degrees marked around the side (don't know what they are called, find them at Lowes), two straight 2x4's and heavy duty rachet straps. Caster: 7 degrees, set it by moving the rear of the wish bones up and down. use the round angle level thing setting atop the king pin. Make sure at full downward suspension travel you still have positive caster! Camber: use the carpenter's level and heat the axle between the king pin and the wishbone mount, use rachet straps over / under the tires from side to side to bend the axle. Set it at plumb with the carpenter's level. Toe: rachet strap the 2X4s to the tires horizontal to the ground and measure between them comparing the front measurement to the rear, set it with slight toe out, ie front wider than rear. That'll get you in the ball park and will most likely suffice for years. If in doubt, take it to a front end shop that can bend axels afterwords. Oh, and paint it! That's my $.02 or maybe $.04...... Good luck Kipp
Kipp, wow, that was a great post!That's something I have been looking for. I know not to use the R word, I don't have fenders or running boards now so I'm thinking of just leaving them off. I'm thinking of a semi standard ride height and making a box for the back. I don't think I'm going to use it for heavy hauling so I don't need a dual wheel (Don't really like the look of a dual wheel either). I want to keep the engine around 300 ci so I don't need anything huge. I like your opinion about paint and think I read the same thing here or at FordBarn. I say patina you say sh!t, haha. That's pretty much how the post went. I like the fresh from the woods look and think that the decision to paint is a long ways away and I'll probably make the decision close to the end. Thanks for all of the information. I'll definitely take it all into account when I'm starting to build/searching for a donor or junk yard finds to put into it.
Just a couple of notes that I have found on the BIG trucks.... The front axle on 28-part of 29 AA's is the same as the passenger/pickup axle, from late 29 up the axles are bigger and the axle, spindle, king pins, bones don't interchange with the passenger/hot rod stuff. You may be able to machine/adapt later ford 3/4 or 1ton spindles and brakes with some effort. Half ton ford spindles won't work without machining to fit the bigger AA k/pins. If you want to run stock style wheels you could find spindles, brakes, and rear axle from a later juice brake big ford, but you would be limited on gearing and parts availability. If you don't mind dropping it down and running smaller wheels standard ford/hot rod spring, axle, spindles and bones can be used. As 27Roadster mentioned the rear axle can be most anything if running a flatbed. You could run a set of parrallel leaf springs from a donor or you could set it up much like it is now, but with a modern axle. The way I set up the 31AA that I had was with the stock cantilever springs minus about 2/3's of the stack and small steel blocks to adjust ride height. I used a f100 half ton rear axle in the stock AA axle hangers and truck arms (triangulated ladder bars) tied in at the stock AA crossmember where the old torque tube used to attach. I had a 302/aod in it that put the front u/joint just after the stock AA crossmember putting the front pivot of the truck arms in the same plane as the front u/joint in the driveshaft. The stock style set up works well, the springs carry the load and locate the axle side to side and the truck arms/ladder bars locate the axle fore/aft and control axle torque. If you want to use a later 3/4 or 1 ton axle the AA axle clamps will be to small (approx 3" ID) so a shackled link will have to be fabbed between the axle and the spring end. If you soften up the spring pack add some shocks to help keep the rubber on the road. 31 aa with drop front axle stock rear. Same truck with 9" ford rear.
I've got 5 AA transmissions, a AA front end and a AA rearend with a very short drive shaft if you need chassis parts. Also have a rebabbitted block for sale. Long ways from Md. though. Rod
Thanks for the information. The guy I'm getting the truck from has a 28/29 and said he has a bunch of extra parts to give me. So, when I go get it and compile all of the parts, I'll have a better look at what I'll need. Maybe next month!
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