I'm sure it won't be long until bluto posts something about some ultra rare unobtanium transmission in a car he developed and raced for Auto Union and won a million dollars but wasn't impressed that he won , beating Hans Stuck.....so he p***ed the design of the pre-1923 Benz Tropfenwagen on to Ferdinand Porsche. Or something simliar.
That picture is of a Saab 99 transmission. I think that must be the one you were refering to. They came normally aspirated and turbo'd. I believe that the Sonnett used one that was more like a VW or Subaru type, long gearcase with the stub axles very close to the flywheel. I can't find a picture of one though. Just because I'm on this picture kick, here's a couple more. one is a Corvair automatic and the other is a Dodge intrepid automatic. I'll shut up now!
Yes, it was FWD and I think it has an Olds Toranado ******. Looked like a lot of time was spent casting the aluminum suspention members to pattern the Miller look. It was too long and the wheels were wrong to pull off the the Miller clone, but it was neat and different.
What you want is a transaxle tht had the engine mounted behind the drive axles. A Volkswagen, corvair, or a Porsche 911 trans would do the job. Just imagine the Falttie mounted in a VW Beetle. then imagine moving that whole driveline forward to the front wheels. I think there was actually a Cord replica in the 60's that did just that with a Corvair driveline.
Stole these from a Google search. The Great Race car Miller/Clone Body built by Charlie Glick at the Heartland Museum, type that in an more info will come up.
As long as we're doing fantasy here,how about a trans from a GMC Syclone(basically a 700R4 with a PTO for the front wheel drive built on.Not sure if it's separate from the trans but if it is adapt it to an S-10 5-speed.The shaft runs along side the motor pretty closely to the front axle which has torsion bars instead of conventional springs.
Dammit 50Fraud, I can't get this whole front drive set-up out of my head. Halibrand Quickchange, inboard Buick drums, mated to a side shift early Ford gearbox. Ritchie Willet's tub. I'd place the drums closer to the centersection though. Or actually, it would look really cool with the grill shell coming down in between the center section and the drums with the Quickchange sticking out of the grill insert and the drums flanking either side of the shell. OK,OK............so I got quite a ways off the replica idea, but man I think that would make a neet looking front end set-up.
Long Time Indy car Mechanic **** Cecil In Brownsburg Indiana has a street driven replica he built, e-mail me off list for his phone number if you want. racer5c@aol.com
Wow, this was FUN! I'd like to have heard from Bluto and AV8 and a couple of others, but as it is it's the most fun thread I've been on in a long while!
Well I'm not Bluto or AV8, but I really like this thread, so I'll chime in. The cheapest and most reasonable thing to do would be to use a VW transaxle adapted to steer. It was done over 50 years ago on a coachbuilt vehicle(predating the type two by over a year) called a Tempo Matador. They mounted the transaxle and engine underneat the front seat, I'm ***uming for more storage room in the cargo area. http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0108vwt_tempo/ A newer "built" transaxle could handle just about anything the flatty can throw at it. It would also be much easier to get parts for, unlike some of the more exotic suggestion. Just my little input to this great thread. God I love these things. This one has a Hebmueller body on it.(anyone ever ship a car from Uruguay, I'm thinking this needs to be my next project) Drew
You have to wonder why Andy Granatelli was advertizing TWO Miller-Fords in the December 1948 SCTA Newsletter, $10,000 and they were throwing in a third car a new Kurtis Kraft champ car.
"Well.............if your talking about a tatra car, they didn't have any universal joints. They had a rear engine with a swingaxle. If your talking about a truck, FORGETABOU***. " And this swing axle swung on ...what?? Actually, I was discussing the 6-WD full independent military prime mover Tatra, but that required a crew of 3 just to keep all the U-joints greased...
Another collection of possibilities: I think a connection was mentioned in a herb adams suspension book for special uprights made to take the Toronado hubs and stuff. Probably much less bulky than original. That pic of the Corvair was helpful to my version--loks like the trans is short enough to fit. Don't remember how bulky the four speeds were--the '65-69 had a fairly strong manual trans.
And you could cheat a bit on the form-follows-function front and hammer form aluminum shrouds mimicking the original A arms and put them over plain fabricated arms...mebbe attaced to torsion bars...
Many years ago Glen Prey built a Corvair engined at TRANS-AXEL baby Cord Glen is a very nice guy owns the "Cord" name and is generally quite willng to talk......If he's still alive He worked out the problem with bits you can find cheap and easily I'll PM his number to you
Also, a "Corvair drivetrain" search will net some other Corvair based creativity... Bluto, do you still have that original shipping pallet with all the spare trans for the Ford-Miller team strapped on for sale??? Or wasn't that you...
No Buck has all that stuff He seems to be able to 'Find'' another car every few years I sat in Ford's car once but never drove it Only Indy car I ever drove was the Brooks Stevens' 33 Studi It was like wrestlin' a bear next to a cliff! If you both fell off the bear wasn't going to be nice to you before you both hit the ground SOOOOOOO MUCH FUN!!!
The VW swing axle used flattened areas on the axle end that ran in slots to take the place of U-joints. Perhaps Tatra was the same. Note the red circle.
Just a side note: the guy that said you turn the VW transaxle upside down for mid-engine applications - you're wrong. You move the ring gear to the other side (been there done that - have a Formula Vee in my parking lot). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" You braggin' or complainin'?
Yes, the flats on the axles, combined with what VW called fulcrum plates, comprised the joints inside the case of the differential. I guess that I (maybe wrongly) ***umed that the Tatra cars used the same type of system based on the fact that they had a boot to allow the axle to swing and keep the gear oil inside. I suppose that they could have a u-joint inside that boot instead.
A real good friend of mine who owns a restoration shop in Paris, IL cast a clone of the original Miller box using some modern 'off-t******lf' transmission gears. His name is Charlie Glick (pictured above by the wheel) and owns Heartland Antique Auto (217-463-1834). The trouble is that Charlie doesn't even own a computer much less have a website!! The car was built for Dale & Vera Bell out of Florida. I did support for Dale on a couple previous GreatRaces in a 1916 Hudson. BTW; Charlie is the largest manufacturer of reproduction Duesenberg parts so you can imagine he isn't cheap but IMO if someone is gonna embark on cloning the Miller-Ford anyway, by the time they have done the body correctly, then using the correct type of transaxle is the only way to go. I might also add that one shouldn't bother calling and "chitty-chatting" your fantasy with Charlie just to pick his brain on the project as he will shut you down pretty quickly, however if you are serious about wanting some parts or some of the panels fabricated, you will find him to be one of the nicest guys ever. He is all-about-business though!!
WAY too wide. Matter of fact, probably about 12" too wide on each side. Look at the wheels sometime to see how much backspacing they use.
I haven't been on the site in a week and just noticed this thread... There is a guy in Arizona who has one of the actual 1935 Ford Miller Indy cars. He replaced the flathead V-8 with a real Miller engine (or an Offy...but I am 99% sure it's a Miller) and has the car set up with lights and fenders and it is road-registered. I just skimmed through most of the thread...did anyone mention a Cord transmission? That seems like the most natural choice.
I'm guessing this is the car you're talking about, Phil Sharples' "kinda" Miller-Ford. Little more than some of the tin pieces are original. Not only is it fitted with an Offy, it's not FWD, nor is the ch***is even close to the M-F. Nonetheless, it's a neat and interesting car, however extremely overdone, much as it might have been rendered by So-Cal Speed Shop, although this car was built by respected race-car restorer Bill Ewing in Tucson. Sadly, little if any of the grace and engineering elegance of the original Miller-Fords remain in this car.
Here are some images of one of the true Miller-Fords, all neatly restored to its original levels of fit and finish. In addition to their engineering brilliance, Harry Miller's cars established fit and finish standards in the '20s that few racecar builders, throughout the World, could come close to equalling at the time. See how "clean" the M-F is -- all suspension and axle- and steering-control elements are carried either inside the body or within the suspension shells. Excellent!
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