I've done a lot of searching on the subject, but everything I can find pertains to high-performance electronic ignitions... My question is, what are the pros and cons of running solid copper plug wires versus modern suppression type, carbon core, etc. wires on a stock 6 volt ignition? how about spiral-core? Same goes for resistor/non-resistor plugs.. I ask because my Packard is running like ****, and I'm running silicone core wires (not sure of brand) and Autolite 86 spark plugs (which come to find out are resistor type, even though the parts guy said otherwise), with NAPA brand coil, points, and condenser. Is my poor running because of the "modern" parts, or is it just that they're worn out? I've been looking and it seems the only true copper stranded type wires you can readily find are the clear red kits from Speedway, Moon, etc... Are these good wires?
It runs, just has a bad miss at high RPM.. I was told it was because of running suppression wires with my 6volt ignition, but others have said it makes no difference.... I was just curious what others have to say on the matter.. I decided on getting some of the stranded core, non-suppression, clear-red wires from Sac Vintage Ford this weekend just to see for myself...
It isn't the cables ***uming they are good. Some secondary resistance is necessary and good and copper cables have none but resistor plugs will provide that. I prefer stainless steel but copper is really not much different at the currents and voltages we are dealing with. Check your coil and your coil resistor if used. Then swap the cap and rotor to see. The old ignition scope is about extinct but is the useful thing to diagnose these issues. These are really not oscilloscopes as such but are "ignition ****yzers". They had a green big CRT and I had ones by Heathkit and Sears that worked great. Now Snappy and the followers are making these "lab scopes", a misnomer, that have some ignition functions but the one I saw at the SO truck recently was not impressive to me.
I agree with Bubba. I have been fooling around with cars, bikes and boats all my life and except for very high HP all out racing engines they will run just fine with cored wires and resistor plugs. Back in the '60s the magneto ignitions on top fuel cars would pale compared to modern HEI stuff.
Over here anyway, finding solid copper plug wires is kinda easy, just have to find a lawn mower supply store Maybe Tractor Supply has it? K ...................................... Taildragger&fenderless
I wont use carbon core wires. Others may disagree. They break down under heat, and handling them aggravates the situation. I have checked dozens of them with an ohm-meter over the years, and more often than not, ended up tossing them. I find them to be thoroughly unreliable and unpredictible. They shouldn't exceed around 10,000 ohms per foot. Unless they are brand new, usually, out of a set of 8 several will exceed this number by a substantial amount. I really havent used them for years, if RFI is an issue, run a spiral core wire. If you dont mind chasing elusive high rpm misfires, I guess carbon core are great. For me, its just one more variable that I dont need in the mix.
Oh, just a tip, check your charging, maybe overcharging at higher rpm's? ...................................... Taildragger&fenderless
The ignition will always fire at the lowest possible voltage. This means that having solid core wires will actually cause you to have a colder spark. The added resistance of a cored wire requires more voltage to be built up before it will fire causing a hotter spark at the gap. You find that a lot of people will think less resistance will mean more spark but that is backwards. Now the flip side of this is that the coil needs to be up for the increased voltage requirement and it would be possible that with your old 6 volt coil it may not have enough poop to fire the circuit with the added resistance and this would show first on heavy loads or high RPM's (sound familiar?) You could use the solid cores and see if that cures you or you could upgrade the coil so it is up for the higher voltage requirement. Hope this helps.
I remember the clear red wires...my pal Ramsay put 'em on his channeled 'A' Coupe... '37 Flattie with aluminum heads, Navarro 2-jugger. He spent most of the day installing the terminals, (using an old pair of pliers...got the firing order mixed up, his Mom made him quit to eat dinner) When we finally started it up, it was dark. Those wires leaked like sacks...the engine looked like....Christmas! (Told him to get Packard wire and Rajahs...)
Right as rain... Think of the suppression wires as a venturi. (putting your thumb over the hose...squirt clear across the street!)
Thanks for all the input! Looks like suppression wires are a plus when running higher power coil, copper core is better for a bone stock setup like I have... I've also been thinking of hitting up the VW shop for a hi-po 6volt coil to solve my ignition problems... Any thoughts on this?
The only problem I have with carbon core wires is, if they get kinked or pulled, it causes internal fractures which causes arcing to complete the circuit, and in this case the circuit being a good spark to the plug.... SO the voltage is dropped because of arcing in the wire, weakening it before its designed to jump on the electrode of the plug....
Kinda correct and kinda not. The combustion pressures inside the cylinder determine the actual firing voltage required to ignite the air fuel mixture. Not the wire resistance ! A hotter coil isnt the answer either. Lets say a engine needs 5000 volts to ignite the air fuel mixture in the cylinder, install a larger capacity coil and it will still only need and recieve 5000 volts. The only gain is a larger tank if you ever did actually need more voltage. A carbon core cable filters out the noise from the electron movement in the cable and actually has little to no effect on firing voltages. I agree they can be stiff, break and cause problems but not really any more that solid wire with defective ends . connections etc... Spark shouldnt be discussed as hot or cold , its either low voltage or high voltage.
Like any circuit the resistance it a total of all its components. Yes cylinder pressure is a huge factor thats why I stated that it will show itself first under a heavy load(high cylinder pressure) and high RPM(low coil saturation) Resistance plug wires also add up an acceptable 10k ohms per foot of resistance and this is added to the resistance caused by the cylinder pressure. This is why low power ignition systems often state "for use with solid core secondary ignition wires only"
Shoot, I think I've still got a 30' roll of Packard 440 somewhere in the back of the big metal building, along with a set or two or rajas' But, like so many things in the back of that big metal building, I don't think I could find them even if I tried.
I smell a new advertising slogan here..."Carbon Core Wires! GMC Bubba says Just as reliable as shoddily terminated solid core wires!" Not what I would call a ringing endor*****t...
Ok, so I picked up some nice cloth-braided copper core wires from Sac Vintage Ford, and some Champion J8 plugs... Boy, what a difference!! No more sputtering, no more popping, just smooth acceleration all the way through the gears... I'm sold. It's a total world of difference!
Next time, go for the real stuff. Jim Gordon at Antique Ford Parts in Rosemead CA has a giant spool of NOS Packard 440 wire. (626) 288-2121.
R1 Coil Wire = 10 K Ohm R 2 = Rotor Gap Bazillion Ohms R 3 =Plug Wore 40K r 4 = 8 Bazillion Ohms Voltage drops R1 10 Volts, R 2 1000 Volts R3 40 Volts R 4 8,000 volts. Comment> If we eliminated the 50 Volt drop of the wires we would still need 8,000 volts to fire the plug, try fitting a bettor rotor gap it would mae 10 times more difference than the wire resistance.
Just as I said, the carbon cores were probably broken down. You can argue all you want about resistance and so on, the fact is, expose carbon core wires to underhood heat for a year, then remove/replace them once or twice, at least some of them will be done. I just dont have the patience to deal with any part that delicate and unreliable, especially when there is other stuff available that will do the job BETTER without any problems. If its a truly traditional, period-correct hot rod, RFI is a non-issue, use solid core. If it is a modern car with lots of electronics, use spiral core. Carbon core is wal-mart junk. As far as that goes, I have also used solid core wires with MSD's, no other precautions than mounting the MSD on the other side of the firewall. I haven't tried this on cars with other ancillary electronics like two-steps and so on, so I cant speak to that. Not really on-topic for the HAMB anyway.
Very well put!! I definitely won't be using the carbon stuff on anything anymore.... There's nothing else delicate on the whole car, why use such fragile wires, right? I also noticed that not only are these srew-on Rajas easy to install, but they click onto the spark plugs much more easily, and are way easier to remove since they give to something solid to pull on. Not to mention you can retrim your wires if they turn out too long and you don't need to wast another connector.
I've owned a few VW buses - all had stock point distributors & solid core wires. Never had to change any plug wires. I would go with that.
Older thread but it hasn't been mentioned yet. If you gap the plugs to wide you can have a high rpm miss. It's a simple check and easy to correct....
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