Well that did it I don't have a gauge by the timing needle but I move it about 1" and the temperature droped almost immeditatelly. The idel pickup a bit but I can adjust it and it seem to run good at idle and accleration. I have not the time to drive it yet but maybe tomorrow. The temperature droped to about 182 degrees which I think is about normal. again thanks very much Jerry
Thanks Hoop! I didn't know what kind of timing these engines typically like and I didn't want to get HIM in over MY head.
Glad to hear you got it running good. You really need to purchase a timing light , moving it one inch could be good or could be bad.
Guys i feel violated !!!! We just replied on a post 33 times and the guy we were all trying to help doesnt have a timing light !!!!!! I have a couple hanging on the wall and will ship him a used one next week....:>)
Thanks for all the help. I do have a timing light but the car just has a pointer and nu scale so I don,t know if I am moving 1or 2 degrees at a time . Thanks for the help Jerry.
What's the diameter of a 50 Ford crank pulley? Looks like it is close to 6 inches so Mark = 2 BTDC 3/4 inch = 16 1 inch = 21 1 1/4 inch = 26 3/8 = 10 for static timing. So get your wife's tape and make some marks. See where you are now at 3000. I would run close to 26 at 3000 RPM. If it knocks under load or is hard to turn over back it up 1/2 way to 21 and retry etc.
Jerry, You engine is designed to be timed on the pin, meaning to adjust spark timing with a light aligning the cover pin to the notch or bb on the pulley. This is either 2 degrees btdc or 4 degrees depending on the application , year model etc. From there the distributor will handle the rest quite well. Your distributor is Equipped with adjustable advance as per instruction sheet by turning the set screw in or out. All are preset at 16 degrees. Each turn out is 2 degrees. Leave the initial set at factory setting (on the pin) and adjust outward as needed. Flatheads don't like the initial advanced from the stock settings ( like a chevy etc). Your engine will idle and start very well using these numbers... Glad to help , don't let your flathead slip into a Chevrolet world !
That's handy having the adjustable advance !! Might be a good idea to see where he is now before he starts over....
You raise a good point but there are traps in that logic. Jerry got it to cool back down by advancing the timing an unknown number of degrees. Bubba says, and he would know, there is 16 in the distributor, and the bump mark on the balancer is 2 BTDC se we are at 18 degrees as installed. Back when the loadamatic worked we would expect about 25 deg advance at cruise. He isn't complaining of a surge at cruise but when he pulls a vacuum line at 2500 it loses RPM so it is lean, which it should be with no load. If he had left the distributor alone and put in bigger jets it would run cooler because that would have made the burn faster the same as advancing the timing. So we would mask a timing problem with overfueling. Flathead gurus run these engines and see no horsepower advantage over 18 degrees advance, but remember that is full rich and WOT. On modern fuel the Flathead is not Knock Limited at WOT so there is definitely apoint of best timing for that running condition.. I can't find any of the same people dyno testing at 35 pct throttle with the power valve closed for best timing. Also the built engines tend to be up some on compression and have less deck clearance etc. Some have cured overheating by running vacuum advance with 22 plus 10 and seeing dramatically lower temperatures. We know for a fact that the engine responded to an unknown timing advance, but it would be good to find out where we are. For a car that is jetted lean for economy I am thinking we will find the best compromise in the 22-26 range. Which would be on the mark with the adjustment out 2 -4 turns, Because it has an adjustable advance limit it is easy to tune. Rich mixtures cover a mul***ude of ills. Weak ignitions get "fixed" by running rich. A lean mixture at cruise will cause over heating indirectly only by slowing the flame speed and effectively retarding the timing. Jerry seems like a diligent guy and this is a great learning opportunity. PS Better a sister in a *****house than a brother in a Chevy!
Glad to see progress. Also, taking the thermostats out is good in a way because it should make the temperatures more responsive to timing changes (at least in the downward direction) ... but as you see, they were not responsible for the hot running, so they should be reinstalled when the timing is dialed in.
A quick word about "lean" or rich, which we toss around a lot. Theoretically there is the chemically correct mixture point called Lambda = 1 or Stoichiometric, about 14.65 Air to 1 Pound Fuel (E=0 gas). For maximum power we want to have extra fuel so we provide less air, say 12.5 - 1. Racing engines may be thermally limited and can't survive at max power, we add more fuel to cool the combustion temperature. Say 11-5 to 1. The bottom of the red box. When we talk about burning a piston because we are lean, we really mean less rich. This is not an issue on a street Flathead or most any non power adder engine. For street engines as we lean them the flame speed slows down, even more so when the cylinder isn't filled up. This slower burning mixture doesn't have time to fully expand, so when the Exhaust valve opens the gases are still very hot and this heat is transferred to the water jackets in a Flathead. We have an economizer valve to lean the mixture and vacuum timing control to allow the spark to start sooner. Therefore the extra temp from a lean mixture in this case is from not completing the burn early enough, thereby elevating EGT and Coolant temperature. This is different than leaning from 11.5 to 12.5 and actually adding temperature inside the cylinder.
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