Painting with the HVLP systems (Respirator?)

I have been convinced that when I get to the prep and painting part of my project that I should do it myself.

Talking to a few local friends, I decided I'm going to take a course on prep and then paint application at Reynolds Museum restoration shop.

I'll buy myself a TP tools HVLP turbine painting system and go at it.

http://www.tptools.com/Showtime-90-...h-ProLine-Paint-Spray-Guns,2992.html?b=d*8049

Will probably go with TCP Global restoration single stage urethane.

My question to all the experienced painters here. With the HVLP system will I need a supplied air respirator ?

I have been told by several friends who paint at home that they use a good charcoal canister respirator and that it is fine.

And yes I know all about the iso cyanates and all that.

Just looking for some real world practical advise.

So, guys, what do you use ??

 

We use 3M full face masks, organic vapor filters for the paint we apply,( mostly urethanes and epoxys) no positive air suppy BUT we are spraying in a downdraft spraybooth, otherwise the positive air supplied mask would be money well spent, IMHO

 

Check with Turbine Products, they sell on ebay, for a fresh air respirator hood. Sells for $350.00. A local painter got one and is happy with it. As stated above, the modern spray booths have a down draft air system so many paint sprayers use only the charcoal masks. But spraying at home in a garage or tent you'll have more exposure to the bad stuff. Remember even your eyes will absorb the chemicals.

 

What are you painting? If in your garage and you have fans bringing air in & out of garage put on the paint suit,hooded-rubber gloves and the 3M a charcoal canister mask would do the trick. Unless you are doing truck bodies by the hundreds!

 

You don't have to spray that paint to have a
problem. Just smelling the stuff when you are mixing it or opening the container can affect you. Too man precautions is not a bad thing as far as your health is concerned. The proper equipment is way cheaper than the bad results.

 

Like said above Isocyanide is real bad. Gets thru your skin, eyes, every where. Even opening and mixing.


Ago

 

Every now & then this question comes up, and I always post this, so without taking the time to read all the responses, I'll put my usual post on the perils of painting, from a while ago...Please take the time to read this, it's worth a minute. it could save your life.

"...Something that needs to stressed here, and I only say this from 30+ years of painting cars in everything from driveways, to garages, to downdraft booths...safety first...this is something that gets a once over, "wear a respirator with new filters..."...good advice, but if you're doing this in an environment that does not have enough CFM of fresh clean air introduced into it, a respirator will only work so well for so long, then you are in an atmosphere FULL of evaporating solvents, and air-born paint solids, and catalyzed nasty chemicals that can KILL YOU GRAVEYARD DEAD!... not to mention the risk of explosion from a room full of solvent vapors...that being said, my suggestion is to rent a spray booth if possible, but you MUST at least wear a respirator, preferably a full face, forced air unit that covers the eyes, with pristine clean air coming from a protected source that will not be contaminated with paint fumes (found this out the hard way, stupid me...) Catalyzed paint, isocyanates and other nasty chemicals enter your body through your lungs, yes, but THROUGH THE EYES AND SKIN, ALSO! Aside from fresh air, you need to wear a paint suit, taped at the wrists and maybe ankles, and gloves, and a head sock,...TREAT SPRAYING PAINT AS YOU WOULD SPRAYING ANY POISON, because that's what it is, damage caused by misuse of automotive refinishing chemicals cannot be "fixed" with a trip to the doctor! Once the damage is done, well...

Just my 2 cents worth...good luck with your paint job..."

Eric

 

As already stated, you are best off using a supplied air full face respirator and if not a full body suit at least gloves when painting with isocyanates, which almost every catalyzed paint contains.
If you are in a well ventilated area an respirator with organic cartridges (usually charcoal) will do, but be aware, isocynates are not filtered out by the cartridges instead they are absorbed in the filter media. And think of them as similar to a dessicant, once the media saturates the absorbing by the cartridge will cease. It is essential the mask is always stored in an air tight container unless it is actually is being used. And ***uming low vapor concentrations plan on replacing after no more than 8 hours usage time.

 

Yup.. definitely swap out cartridges a lot!

 

Tell me more about this Showtime 90 turbine system. Looks very cool.

Jim

 

There have been several threads about isocyanates. The manufacturer recommends positive pressure fresh air supply, although many have gotten away with using organic filters, and I've been known to spray hoods and roofs without gloves so that darn sweat didn't drip onto my paint...but it's not a good idea.

Some people have had bad allergic reactions to the materials in the paint causing asthma and respiratory problems. An allergy can be caused by a minute amount of a substance not even near the toxocity level. Hell, people can be allergic to eggs, so if you haven't been exposed to isocyanates before you'd never know.

I used to do all kinds of dangerous things, but I figure now why takes chances. On another thought, if you're spraying a car that's not a daily driver, why not just spray Centari single stage enamel? It won't hold up to prolonged UV exposure, but it's forgiving as hell, easy to shoot and won't die back if layed on to heavy.

 

Looks like I will have to pop for one of these to be on the safe side.

http://www.tptools.com/Deluxe-Respirator-System-wandFull-Face-Mask,390.html?b=d*13412

 

Safety should be your #1 concern.
To do this stuff right takes a huge commitment, sometimes way to much of a commitment to justify making it for just 1 car.

With that preface,,,,
It would be easier, safer, and cheaper to befriend a painter to put it in his booth and squirt it. You do all the prep, supply the materials and let him get the trigger time.

Next option is that you make the equipment commitment and then you'll be painting all kinds of **** because you can.

Just do it right or don't do it.
And you can absorb as much if not more thru your skin than you can breathe in.

 

Do not spray in jeans and t-shirts either, they absorb the chemicals and vapors like a sponge and hold them on your body. The tyvek suits make you sweat like hell but the skin is the largest organ and skin cancer ****s. Check out viton gloves, very expensive but do not transmit solvents like others do.

 

Well, when all is said and done, I would like to do it myself.

Sure I could farm out the spraying itself, that would save a bit of grief.

I only see myself doing my 26 RPU, it's such a small project (although there will be lots of small parts to paint).

The benefit to doing it myself would be that I could do it as my time and schedule allowed.

I don't plan on getting into it just because I have the stuff. I know about the PPE and that is do-able as far as I can see.

I know quality work comes with a price but I get very nervous when guys say that prep and paint for my little project could come in around + or - $10,000

I may not get a show quality job, but surely I can learn to do a p***able job myself for a few $ less.

 

what he said

 

you guys are scaring me with this, I just saw it. what if I was spraying out in the open in my back yard? the only protection I had was a sombrero to keep from sunburning. there was a slight breeze, most of the overspray went off into the air away from me

 

o and im a hobbyist not do it as a job so only exposed like this like twice a year

 

I have a system like shown in post 12, I've not only used for painting but also sandblasting (worn under the sandblast hood) and even welding where I didn't have good ventilation. It was expensive, but lungs are irreplaceable.

 

I was looking into an HVLP turbine system ( I currently use an HVLP with long hoses to compressor). Anyways, I've been turned away from HVLP turbines because spraying automotive paint is HIGHLY FLAMMABLE, and when you have the turbine system in the spray booth, you are creating a spark when you have it on and running. I've seen 2 paint booths BURN DOWN this way. There's nothing wrong with a standard HVLP gun. In fact, the truth is, if you know what you are doing, you can paint 1 whole car with a HF HVLP gung ($10 w coupon) and get results that a SATA $400 gun will give. Just ask Gene Winfield, he uses HF guns !!! (I've seen them in his spray booth)

Just my .02

 

I don't believe the fire thing would be an issue. Especially if you put the turbine outside the painting area as it should be, or at least isolated from the area reasonably.

There is no subs***ute for common sense.

 

YEP. this is best set up, but make sure the air intake is in a protected place, away from paint fumes! Make sure you have a way to exhaust the paint mist, like a paint booth.

Here's something interesting I JUST found from Dupont, about their paints. Read it carefully, and then decide if it's worth it...

7. Handling and storage
Precautions to be taken in handling and storing:
Observe label precautions. If combustible (flashpoint between 38-93 deg C or 100 - 200 deg F), keep away from heat, sparks and flame. If flammable (flashpoint less
than 38 deg C or 100 deg F), also keep away from static discharges and other sources of ignition. If material is extremely flammable (flashpoint less than - 8 deg C or 20
deg F) or flammable, VAPORS MAY IGNITE EXPLOSIVELY OR CAUSE FLASH FIRE, respectively. Vapors may spread long distances. Prevent buildup of vapors. Close
container after each use. Ground containers when pouring. Wash thoroughly after handling and before eating or smoking. Do not store above 49 deg C or 120 deg F.
If product is waterbased, do not freeze.
Other precautions:
If material is a coating: do not sand, flame cut, braze or weld dry coating without a NIOSH approved air purifying respirator with particulate filters or appropriate
ventilation, and gloves. Combustible dust clouds may be created where operations produce fine material (dust). Avoid formation of significant deposits of material as they
may become airborne and form combustible dust clouds. Handling and processing operations should be conducted in accordance with best practices (e.g.NFPA-654).
8. Exposure controls/personal protection
Ventilation:
Provide sufficient ventilation in volume and pattern to keep contaminants below applicable exposure limits.
Respiratory protection:
Do not breathe vapors or mists. If this product contains isocyanates or is used with an isocyanate activator/hardener, wear a positive-pressure, supplied-air respirator
(NIOSH approved TC-19C) while mixing activator/hardener with paint, during application and until all vapors and spray mist are exhausted. If product does not contain or
is not mixed with an isocyanate activator/hardener, a properly fitted air-purifying respirator with organic vapor cartridges (NIOSH TC-23C) and particulate filter (NIOSH
TC-84A) may be used. Follow respirator manufacturer s directions for respirator use. Do not permit anyone without protection in the painting area. Individuals with history
of lung or breathing problems or prior reaction to isocyanates should not use or be exposed vapor or spray mist if product contains or is mixed with isocyanate
activators/hardeners.
Protective equipment:
Personal protective equipment should be worn to prevent contact with eyes, skin or clothing.
Skin and body protection:
Neoprene gloves and coveralls are recommended.
Desirable in all industrial situations. Goggles are preferred to prevent eye irritation. If safety gl***es are subs***uted, include splash guard or side shields.

In other words, if you're not properly trained & fully equipped to deal with these chemicals, maybe you shouldn't...?

EW

 

if you go that rout the 3M versaflow is what i would get. it cordless and super light weight
http://www.aikencolon.com/3m-versaf...r-kit-1-case?gclid=CIW-ju7RibgCFbBFMgodkk8AMg

 

more info an the 3m versaflow...

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...n/Supplied_and_PoweredAirRespirator/Versaflo/

 

Did you bother to look into the suitability or uses of the product ? If you want to use it for painting with isocyanates, the particle filters are useless as is the cordless feature.

In order to paint with the 3M system you have to use the breathing air regulator and a hose. You would also need a compressor capable of supplying breathable quality air, or a bottle of breathable air to run off.

If it's anything like other 3M products it's expensive as all hell and with the needs posted above it kind of defeats the purpose of something to use at home for less than professional use.

 

Anyone else using the HVLP system with anything to add ?

 

Maybe I got lucky I didnt kill myself. I used the tp tools showtime in my garage for my first ever complete paint job. I just used a cheap 3m duel cartridge mask, but put in 2 extra filters each side, actually made it hard to breath. Wore safty goggles and cheap painters coveralls with hood. No ill effects and the single stage urethane paint job turned out better then I thought it would.

 

Yeah, but how many years did you take off your life?

None, one, ten...who knows

 

I would think a 50lb air cylinder would be cheaper than a pump.

One other thing to consider, breathing air (at least from a cylinder) supplies nice cool air to your face and is a lot more comfortable than a filter cartridge mask. I have used both in industry. At first we *****ed about having to wear a full mask and the 'perceived' h***les that a positive pressure system was going to bring, but once we used it, no one wanted to go back to the filters. Mask + bottle of air -no big deal.

Kelvin

 

True, but mine was just a one time thing, just to see if I could do it. I might do one more on my new project, not sure yet.