This is a great thread to read on Sunday night, right before the start of another work week, no matter what side of this topic you're on...thanks to all that have posted.
Great topic. I retired last year after working for the same company for 37 years. From reading the what do you do thread I think I am the only Accountant on the board. My entire working life all I did was save and invest with the goal of retiring early. I have no debt, a great wife, great kids, big garage( i wish it were bigger but I ran out of lot), and two street rods. You might say I am a have. BUT am I really. I have read this board for the past year (plenty of time since I retired). I continue to be amazed at the talent that exists of the people who post. Those that can weld, fabricate, design, and build cars in my mind are the haves. I wish I could do that. I had to pay someone to build my cars. I am a numbers guy and I do not have the skill to build a car, maybe that makes me a gold chainer. I was always working behind a desk and never had a chance to learn by experience. Now that I have time I plan to take a class in welding and auto mechanics so I can learn. I know I will never catch up with the talent on this board but I will continue to learn all I can from reading the how to posts. Thank you for your instruction.
my greatest pride is that my friends look to me for advice. i know, on an internet message board, that gives me no credibility whatsoever, but the idea of this post is to hand on the advice you can, so i'll do that. this is my credo, in point form, much of it duplicated info from like-minded people who have already posted: 1. get a job, young. who cares if you make 5 bucks an hour flipping burgers! get a job, learn how to make money. i started at the check-out of a supermarket when i was 15. 2. don't spend what you don't got. i have never, EVER borrowed money for ANYTHING that wasn't going to make me money. the single most common mistake young people make is trying to live beyond their means. for every 21 year old driving a really nice, late model car, i'll show you a dead broke 35 year old, still driving the same car. NEVER pay interest on a depreciating asset (one that loses value over time). anything you borrow for should either provide a tax advantage, or MORE than pay for itself. don't use the CREDIT on a credit card! 3. attitude. i honestly think that i am totally awesome... i am! if i could be anyone in the whole world, i'd be me. this is, by itself, the most important attribute a successful person can have. don't believe me? look at donald trump!! great thread guys...
BUY LAND. Beg, borrow, sell everything you have, but buy a house. 99% of the wealthiest americans got that way by real estate or sustained their wealth with realestate. Don't use the "I'm too young, there's time for that later" or "I don't have enough saved". Like Brewsir said, anyone can own land. Ten years ago I bought my house for $60,000. We'll be selling in a few months for over $300,000, and I'll get to move somewhere I love (Asheville) buy a nicer house for way less, and use the balance to buy more real estate. If you teach your kids anything about money, tell them to buy real estate as soon as they are able. I had a small inheretance when I was 18. ($10,000 in 1989). My wife and I blew it in a few months on stuff I can't even remember. If my parents had showed me that I could put it down on a house I'd be even better off now. Credit cards are evil. Don't use them except to build credit. If you have a family, make them the priority. Little Johnny would rather see his dad than have you work over time so he can have $100 tennis shoes. When we had our second child my wife went back to work because she loves working and I now stay at home. Cash is tight, but I know I and my kids will look back on this time with great memories....they won't remember that they didn't have every toy the ever wanted, and they'll know that they were always our first priority. I now not everyone can quit their jobs (we now get by on less than $30,000) but just think about what really matters in your kids life before you take all the overtime or that job that's 2 hours away.
Larry, I'm glad you brought up this topic, because I've been meaning to say something like this myself. We in the car scene are all so quick to hate people like Jay Leno or Bruce Meyer, saying things like " Those rich guys, must be nice to just buy any car you wanted!" or "Their just buying their way into the Hot Rod scene" etc. etc., but lately I've been thinking quite the opposite. I'm actually starting to really admire the guys with money that choose to spend it on stuff that we less fortunate like. I mean, think about it, they don't have to spend tons and tons of money on old greasy stuff, they could go out and spend their dough on new jets and yahts and suits and stuff. But they don't... and you know why? because they are just like us deep down inside. If you gave 20 million dollars to anybody here on this board, they wouldn't give up the hobby.... Oh no, They would have the biggest fuckin garage on earth, filled with rare shit! and everybody would hate them too, but that's just because we would all be soo jealous. So if your reading this.,. I hope you think about it, and start supporting the rich guys that support our hobby, instead of easily dissmissing them because we are all really just green with envy. .......... Know what I mean?
Amen, Doc... and also to all of the other people that are stressing both financial responsibility and doing a job you love... I'm 26, own a house and 5 cars, working full time while doing a Master's in Social Work full-time at Arizona State... and couldn't have done ANY of it if I wasn't taught financial responsibility very early on (as a result of my Dad's financial IRresponsibility)... My plan for now is to finish my Master's, then the prereqs for med school, then psychiatry -- not for the money aspect (although of course that helps) but because my experience is with adults with serious mental illness and I see a need for change in the system -- and figger the best way is from the inside... If I was just lookin' for the money I could be makin' three times what I make right now (got a friend in Finance doin' it, Social Work don't pay shit), and the med school route is gonna be at least another 8-10 years of working my ass off, Ramen noodles, and student loans, but it's something I really, truly have a passion for and care about... Do whatcha love, keep yer head on straight, and never let ANYONE tell you that you can't do what you really want to... Longroof
Guys I agree with everything I have read before and Larry great post. Here in Oz we have perfected the art of ragging on those who have the nice rides, homes etc. Granted some of them were born into it, and some busted their asses to have that stuff. Ever pulled up at a set of lights next a dude or chick (young too) in a fancy yuppie ride or even a nasty rod? Whats the first thought that goes thru your head when you see someone like that in something YOU dont have?? Lets see....drug dealer, yuppie, rich kid, bank loan whatever., But none of use EVER really think "this person busted their asses for this so good luck to em." Anyone here think that way? Id say prob most of us dont.....its all psychology and seeing someone in a nice ride (or whatever) really drags you out of your comfort zone at a subconscious level. Its so subtle we dont even realise it. The next thing is were not really comfortable with that so we JUSTIFY it with the above comments....anything to make us feel LESS uncomfortable. Ive been at both ends of the spectrum and believe me that this is what most (not all) people do, hell Ive done it too. I bought my first home at 21 and have gone on from there and never looked back; in hindsight, I should gone even harder. I work in Financial Investment/Property sector and believe me I see all the shit that goes on out there here and Stateside as our Company has offices in Vegas and in So Cal. Balance is also important to me...no point being the richest dude in the cemetery either. Ive got 2 friends who drive Ferraris and yet their rides have been spat on, keyed, leaned on etc etc by people who "justify" it. These 2 dudes have a concreting business and work on their hands and knees 8 days a week....THEY PAID THE PRICE !! I wonder how many of their detractors would actually pay half that price to have what they want in life. Dont worry about what others "have" or dont have. Set your goals, work steadily toward them, live within your means (piss the Credit Cards off), dont listen to others who try and drag you down to their level and you WILL get there while everyone else is pissing in the wind..... A wise dude said : Education will not gaurantee success; the world is full of educated derelicts Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a Proverb. Money will not; the world is full of people with money who piss it away Only PERSISTANCE is omnipotent - "They told Edisons parents he was retarded as a child and yet he was the only one who developed the light bulb whereas all the "Educated" establishment could do was sitback and can him for his efforts. One man changed the world for the better thru PERSISTANCE alone...NOT because of GENIUS, or MONEY or EDUCATION. Most successful people in life dont even have an education. My 0.02c Rat
Oh yeah I forgot - someone else also said this and I think they are right. "Being broke is temporary, being poor is a state of mind" Rat
I think that "have" and "have nots" all depends on your own personal definition. When I was in my 20's, I thought being a "have" meant having lots of expendable $ and multiple hot rods to drive. I would have done anything to be in that position. Now that I'm 35, my idea of "have" is a good family, reliable transportation for me and my wife, a decent place to live, and to ensure that my kids don't go without. Last on my list(still important) is a something cool to drive. Basically, as you get older each persons definition of "have/have not" changes. I beleive if you work hard and try to be helpful to others, most times you get rewarded in the end. There are always those willing to take advantage of you, but trust me, what goes around certainly will come around,sooner than you think.
Another thing related to real estate-- once you have some, especially your first house, don't EVER let them take it away from you. I know two young guys whose houses got foreclosed on because they were out of work and their pride got in the way. Now they are paying twice what their mortgage was to rent a lesser place and their credit is screwed. Once again it comes down to priorities. NEVER be to proud to do any honest work. If it came to it I'd work a double at 7-11 then head to another shift at McDonalds. Do what you have to do to keep what you worked hard to get. To many people lose everything they own because "they can't find work". There's always work to be found. ALWAYS.
I have to agree with Glassguy that this is probably the best thread that I have read on the HAMB. In reading just about every one of these posts....or @ least skimming them I've noticed some extremely important things. Note: I grew up in a small apartment with my mom and we would have been considered the "have - nots" I'll be 25 in a couple of weeks and consider myself a "Have" @ this point in my life. #1 Today's generation wants what they want and they want it NOW!!!!!!!!! (and I know cause I'm one of them.) Patience is everything!!!! I currently want a house...NOW!!!!!!!!!! #2 Learn to work hard - I have never not had a job since I was 15 #3 - get a degree even if it is just a general "business" degree - It makes you more moticable in the workplace. - I had a job offer before I even gratuated school and now I make great $ working for an insurance company, with a company truck and company paid gas _____________________ I now pay rent for a garage bay @ eddie's shop to work on my HotRod P/U I pay Rent to live in my Uncle's Basment I pay for food I have a SH**Load of college loans I'm paying Phone Bills, etc, etc. I'm helping my mom pay for a '04 BONE STOCK (no rice for me) Honda Civc, and @ the same time - building her credit back.....1st NEW car she's ever had I still find that I have $$$ left to play with the hotrod and to fuel my hobby/passions. #4 Don't smoke, Don't do drugs, Cut back on the booze, - I drink once in a blue moon, and I can't imagine how much $$$ people spend on these 3 things. #5 Credit Cards....very easy to use, very easy to get you into major trouble. If you think your going to have a problem - have the company put a small limit on it...like $500 or so. I have never carried a balance on my Credit card because I can't stand to pay interest. If i don't have the cash in the bank...I don't buy it. SIMPLE AS THAT. #6 ATTITUDE is everything...it's been said several times here in this thread. Don't knock what you don't have - LEARN from the "goldchainer's" - you might surprise yourself. TV is a waste of time, Do something that motivates you - even if you don't make any money @ it. Fathers, Mothers, Uncles, Aunts, Grandparents - all of you who have a youngster who hangs around you...even if it is the kid down the street who stops by your garage to see what you are upto today - teach them and show them that PATIENCE is probably the single most important and hardest lesson they will learn in life. And please, please teach them to have a positive attitude - towards everything. listen to your parents/family/elders...they usually know a little something about life
"It's nice to be important, But I'ts more important to be nice" That said, i live a Charmed Life. I have rich friends, i have poor friends..It's all about how you carry yourself. Don't asume just because someone "PARTIES HARD" That their piorities are out of wack. I party hard, but hold a very good job, have my own house that I work to pay off...a nice car, a great girl etc etc....I spend too much but in many ways it is my 'release' from working. My dad works 11 hours a day in a high stress job..to relax he goes out on his hobby farm and breaks his back physically...his release....I work my 8 or so hours a day and then party and renovate..my release. If I gave up goin out and being social I could afford a few extra nice rides no problem..but I would be a basket case. Everyman is different. M
Wealth is a state of mind. it doesn't matter how much $$$$$$$$$ u have in ur pockets or bank account. i am fortunate to of had the "HAVES" but also the "HAVE NOTS". there has been times in my life when i could basicly buy anything i wanted or needed, hell at 18 i worked in a steel mill & owned 6 cars, but then there also has been times in my life where i had to sell any & just about everything to stay above the rising water. BUT at the same time i was still wealthy yes i said wealthy now i didnt have a dime in my pocket but i consider myself wealthy. i had a roof over my head, the bills were being paid, there was food on the table, heat in the winter & AC in the summer. BUT most of all i have my family & friends which is the one "HAVES" i'll take over anything........ just remember folks it doesnt make a damn bit of difference if u have a $1 in the bank or $1,000,000 in the back, (yes $$$ does make life a bit easier for everyone) but other then the amount of $$$$ u have everybody is the same. when u get up in the morning everybodies feet hit the floor, ur underwear(if u wear them), pants, shirt & shoes all goes on the same and ur shit still stinks. live ur life to the fullest because u'll only get out of it what u put into it.......joe
Was born a have not. Don't really think I am a have but I sure as hell know I will never be a have not again. The absolute worst thing that could happen to me job and financially wise is I have to go back to driving a truck for a living. So the hell what, I loved that job (because of #2 below time to think and dream) and if that is what the cards dealt well so be it. That job of driving got me to where I am in life in my own businesses and a pretty damn good career. Thanks for starting this post it and it has been thusfar a fantastic read. Three things that everyone should get out of this post. 1) You are all reading. That is a freebe and worth every penny of it. Now go read at least one good financial/business book a month. Hell read two bad ones. Read the business section of the newspaper (find a free one). Keep reading and educating yourself. Most of them repeat some of the same things but it will re-enforce the principals. Just 1 hour a week pays huge dividends. 2) You are all thinking. Again a freebe. You all have a brain, use it and dream, another side benefit at no cost to you. Dream small and dream huge. Just dream and play the what if games. What if I just did this?.........Well why the hell not try it and find out. Keep thinking! 3) Believe. Just believe in something. A goal, a project, hell worship "Our Mother Patron Saint of The Torque Wrench" if that is what floats your boat. But most of all always believe in yourself. Do not be afraid to fail and fail big if you do. It costs no more to be a big failure than a small one. Learn what you did wrong, correct it and start again. This step is called learning and we do it everyday it just never gets pushed to the top or recognized as just that, learning. You learned math by failure, life is no different. Believe in yourself by investing in yourself. Pay yourself first and go from there. Even if it is two cents, that is yours to keep. Reading, thinking and believing in yourself are huge investments that cost you vitually nothing upfront. There was a wise man I was fortunate to meet racing that figured if you had a pizza that came in a box and were wearing clothes life was good. His reasoning was you had food, clothing and shelter. You could stand up wearing your clothes, eat some pizza and hold the box over your head in the rain for shelter to stay dry. Kind of basic but I think you get the drift.
It's all about persistence and creativity. For example, most people don't realize how hard you have to work to get a good lawsuit going. The big problem is all the warning stickers on stuff -- "do not climb past this rung" and "do not clear mower discharch while running" and "do not spill hot coffee on crotch." I swear, these corporate bastards are making it harder and harder for us average Joe plaintiffs to get a reasonable settlement for pain and suffering. That's why it's important for you young guys to really use the creativity when it comes to coming up with a solid lawsuit. Like your microwave. Sure, it says "do not use to dry off pets," but does it say anything against using it as a hair dryer? Hey, I'm just sayin'. The other key to success is to be flexible, and go for volume. You'd be surprised at how many companies are happy to settle out of court for $500 or $600, like that one company, whats-its-name, after that one time I think I had a pretty good head injury. After attorney fees, that was like $300 or $400 that I could spend at the swap meet, or burn clinic, or so on.
Well, you bring home about the same $$ as I do... I have two cars I paid cash for, no credit card bills, $200 left on a student loan, and a mortgage. I'm 29 soon to be 30yrs, and a year ago I didn't think I could buy a house either. My advice? Listen to Dave Ramsey, or go buy his book "Total Money Makeover". Get some money stashed ($1000 - Dave calls it an 'emergency fund'), then pay the crap our of your credit cards. Get them to zero, cut 'em up, and get a debit card out of your checking account... unless you travel for work, then get an AMEX, since you'll be forced to pay it off every month, it CAN'T get too out of hand. Get a money plan, Dave's book can help (as can many of the people on the HAMB), listen to your parent's (that was my BIG mistake), even if it's tough advice, and go talk to a mortgage company. Pull your credit report (http://www.annualcreditreport.com) for free (do one of the three credit bureau's every four months, so you can keep an eye on it throughout the year), and make certain nothing is goofy on it... I had three Birthdays, and several fraudulent things on mine I had to clear up. Just stay honest, and keep working. You'll get there, hopefully MUCH sooner than I did. Ben
Gang- Interesting stuff here. The HAMB board continues to surprise me. I don't think there are very many e-groups that combine such a large number of youth and oldsters. I continue to be impressed by the good-natured give and take between the generations. As for life's lessons, I've personally had a good degree of success following this little adage - one that has been attributed to the legendary "Surfers" top fuel team from the '60s (a fact I was able to confirm directly with "Surfer" Tom Jobe a few years ago). It works well at the track - and I would suggest in all of life. Like all good advice, it's simple and to the point. It goes like this - "Work hard, play fair. You'll win your share." Amen.
I think the HAMB itself tends to draw in people with a desire to work, and tends to be a bane to those with an entitlement attitude or acute case of lazyasses. All we talk about is how to work on our cars in the best, cheapest way. As a group, we get excited when someone finds a 49' Merc 4dr upsidedown in a ditch where it was dumped for erosion protection 40 years ago - and offer our backs and sweat to help dig it out! We offer knowledge, and labour to people we hardly know with no expectations. Where else do you find that nowadays... Anyways, I am a 29 year old single guy. I have never been given anything in my life because my parents thought that if you got something for nothing, it would mean nothing to you. They wanted me to appreciate the things I got. I realize that I am part of a generally apathetic generation that seems to think that they are entitled to everything. Seems a lot of my friends are still living at home at age 30 and beyond because they refuse to take any of the menial jobs they are qualified for. I have a friend and his girlfriend who both have degrees and live at his parents house. He refused to take any of the entry level positions that he is qualified for because they pay too little or were too menial! I work my butt off with my 9-5 job, plus restoring cars for friends, hauling and scrapping cars, and working as a theatre carpenter or stage hand if needed. I am not a slave to money, and my 9-5 pays for all the bills and lets me eat, play a little, and pay down the line of credit. Everything else is gravy. I just bought my first house in a good area of Toronto proper this spring. I own 5 cars, I have decent furniture, and can go out to eat, or to a club if I want to. Some of my car friends think I am make twice what I make at my main job, or that I am extremely lucky because I bought the house. I have a big morgage, and I have a friend who just bought his frirst house outright for cash. He scrimped and saved and invested wisely and at age 32 bough a $300,000 and a new car, again for cash. People who don't know him well think he's rich or had everything given to him. Fact is, he is a theatre carpenter who makes maybe 30K a year. He gave up 15 years of blowing money on useless things having fun. He needs a reliable car now to pay for the bills on the house so he bought one. He drove junk for 15 years previously. People think he is so lucky. I think you make your own luck. I like to think that I am slowly becoming a success in life because bills are not crushing me, I have a roof over my head, food to eat, and most importantly - have time and money to enjoy myself occasionally. I have a plan and a destination on where I want to be in 5 years. I work my ass off to achieve my goals and hate to be in debt. I am trying to sell my turbocharged camaro and an old van to pay off the last of my line of credit, and let me start building the engine I want to build for the 49' Fleetline. I would love to keep the camaro, but I hate my debt more. I think anyone with the same attitude can eventually be a "have".
Guys some fantastic books that can change your way of thinking and your life are: The Magic of Thinking Big - cant remmeber the author, Google Thick and Grow Rich - Napoleon Hill The Science of Getting Rich - Google it, its there. Read em, then read em again and again till it sinks in. Never truer words were written on this stuff. Hope this helps ya'all....I know it did me !! MASSIVELY Rat
Something else to think about... If I go by what I currently spend on beer today, and apply it for the last 20 years, I have spent around $78,000. Thats almost what my house cost!!! Thats a 12 of bud or whatever, 15 bucks a day. Doesnt need to be beer. Smokes, strippers, eating out, etc. you single ones or married too that eat out 3 meals a day would save a ton eating at home, and be healthier too. If you smoke, drink, and eat out 3 meals a day, you would spend 2-3 times that in 20 years. It seems like a little bit, but it adds up fast.
I read most of this thread and there is some valuable advice given, but it's only valuable if you use it. I think anyone who is dissatisfied with their position in life should read everything that's been posted here a couple of times and let it sink in. Then put the information that pertains to you into action. NOW!!! A man I greatly admired when I was young told me something that didn't sink in until I was much older. Here it is: "the harder you work the luckier you get". Think about it. Frank
Fab you hit it on the head....dont just take action though....TAKE MASSIVE ACTION on what you have learned. If you keep doint today what you did yesterday, NOTHING is gonna change tomorrow. IF NOTHING CHANGES, THEN NOTHING CHANGES.... Thick about it guys !! Rat
I agree- as I start my own business going into our 2nd year (althought it s more like the first again because we had to move and start over) My wife is the one who is paying our home bills while I work on getting the business going. Our income prior to our starting up was over $100 K a year and now its less than half that , but having the support behind you of someone who really beleives in you is very impoortant. YOu also nbeed to remember to support them back too. I just know that hard work ,HONESTY ( towards the people you come in contact with AND yourself- by understanding your limitations) and perseverence is what is vital to succeed.
Great thread--learning a lot from different walks of life. 58 years young here with a great wife of 31 years, 2 kids, 7 grandkids of which we are raising 4. Started life probably a have not wanting eveything the have had. partied hard, especially in the service--transferred to real life afterward. Been in debt over my head many times. Finally after getting my present job(18 years as ambulance fleet manager/mechanic) started to realize I needed to get started on something. With the help of the good women we own our own home, couple of vehicles, couple of toys(cars), raised couple of pretty good kids and now have the life of what I think a have should have(redundant). Have learned how to save very frugally--quit smoking 15 years ago and to this day still put money in a coffe can every day for the cigarettes I used to smoke. Pays for a lot of car show trips out of town. None of toy money comes out of family budget--have to do side jobs to pay for any of that. Only one credit card--paid off each month when possible. Have instilled some of these traits into the kids, especially trying to stay out of debt, which is a real killer--they are starting to learn. Also have tried to teach them respect for everyone. I still refer to my elders as Mr. or Mrs. they deserve that much respect. Most kids today are basically good, but I think the generation they are involved in has a lot to do in how they react to certain things. Hopefully they will learn from as as we did from our parents but didn't realize later in life how right they were. At least I think mine were. Thanks guys.
The advice and lessons given in this thread absolutely amaze me. I had no idea this would happen on such a monumental scale. This place is amazing. Whenever I get overwhelmed by life, I'll pull this thread up for a little humble pie. Thanks to all who took time out to extend a helping hand to someone here...good stuff.
The Jalopy Journal
