State of CT DMV is telling me a home built or modified frame needs to be signed off on by a certified automotive engineer though it doesnt say that in any of the composite vehicle information. Anyone know where i can find one in the CT/New England area. Doug
Holy cow, that is new to me. Composite inspection done at the main station in W'field has always been tough in my opinion, but I've never heard about the engineer sign-off. I would think there should be a state statute to make this a requirement. I went through all the statutes 30 years ago on another issue with DMV/taxation. You can view them at a library, town hall, or maybe online. The first two might get you some pointers on which volume(s) they are in. in other words, if it is not in the statutes, it is not inforceable. It could be something that just passed this session, a few weeks ago, though.
Wow, just wow. I know some stuff like that is required in places like Australia, I think, but never heard of it here in the States. Just one more way to legislate us out of existence. Don
We were going through the inspection process last fall with a buddies 30 model a and he asked back then. Their reply was we used to have a guy who worked here but he doesn't work here anymore. I recently inquired via dmv's email and was good this by a Sargent. When asked where I might find an automotive engineer his response was to look on the Internet. I believe as well that its not enforceable but realistically how can u fight them. They'll fail it for something else. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
You are correct, as I believe only one station does composite inspection. Buck heads, and out come some bizarre genuine requirements that you cannot pass. Maybe someone who knows, will see this in the morning.
In Australia it is almost impossible to have a vehicle on full registration if it has an aftermarket chassis. It is ok to use 80 year old rails but not brand new replicas. We can have rods on what we call "club" registration bur that has restrictions on usage. I have found you need to talk to more than one engineer as most just don't understand hot rods.
See if they can accept going with a Professional Engineer (aka PE). They should be a lot easier to find and will inspect almost anything, but expect to pay a fee for the service depending on how much work they have to do to back up their approval, if they approve it. A PE puts their ass on the line for anything that signoff on and are held liable if something goes wrong with something that they approve. Bob
Yep, and...do not let your legislature (State-level) allow to make laws which then require PE, or other 'expert' inspection before you can register/drive a build. In New England we went thru this type hazing in 2001. Maine was wise enough to permit craftsmen to repair or modify small boats...w/o a PE inspecting them. A former PE of 30+years.
You think someone with an A&P license might qualify? Dumb rule.......If this and other inspections were truly effective you would think there would be a huge increase in the incidence of accidents cause by faulty equipment in states with no inspection. Statistically, the difference is so small as to simply be noise.....
Seriously ??? Could this nanny state mentality get any worse ???? [I'm probably going to hate having asked that] dave
Check with a sanctioning body like NHRA or whatever you have for a local race track. Most require a tech inspection, maybe they can point you to somebody...
Just curious, is this a high quality build or more of a rat build? Ive had guys in AZ get hassled for rat builds, but on higher quality builds Ive NEVER had an issue. And we dont really have any sort of a safety inspection. Just wondering if that may be a part of him/her enforcing it?
Is this ever interesting! Automotive Engineers seldom take the PE. test to get certified. That falls in most cases to Mechanical Engineers who after years in the field take the (NCEES) test National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying. When I took mine I was ten years in the field, but today I think it's change somewhat as to the time in the trade before one can take the test. The PE Certification and licensing is for each state. You only take the test once but must fill out the paperwork for each state. You can only sign off on work in the state that your licensed in. The PE. license for the state is for so many years and if you don't pay the licensing fee you can't sign off or use the PE. behind your name. This is an interesting situation because are they asking for an Automotive Engineer or a Mechanical Engineer with a PE. When I went through GMI back fifty years ago I couldn't get an Automotive Engineering certification or license. I had to go back to school for three more year to receive a Mechanical Engineering degree to go along with my Automotive Engineering Degree. You can find a Mechanical Engineer with a PE. by getting in touch with the State Board of Professional Engineers you can find a certified/licensed Engineer with a PE. A little side note about Engineers. A firm only need one Engineer with a PE. Many times a company in house will title their Engineers "Mechanical Engineer","Design Engineer",or "Staff Engineer" and not have an engineer with a PE. I've headed up many teams over the years and I was the only one with the PE. So whoever you get make sure that they have an up to date certification/license or it will all be for not. I guess it's the time we live in and before long they will outlaw all Hot Rods, but I blame the morons that vote these people into office. Lets face it we car guys are one percent or the population and are out there alone. The masses don't give a crap about our Hot Rods and if they can make the regulations so strict that we could never comply then our sport hobby will fall by the way side, and that's what many of them want. Thanks for reading, Johnny Sweet.PE.
You must have some hot rod friendly legislators . Check with SEMA and get a name . Call and get the scoop from him or her. I've been a practicing engineer( mechanical ) for a very long time. I would almost bet that you won't find an engineer who will sign off on a frame build or repair without a written specification of the fabrication process, welding data , and qualifications of the fabricator/welder. If you go to a structural engineer well , good luck with that, they are noted for being super conservative. Furthermore , the liability is huge and because of this if one would , the fee will likely be huge too.
Who at the DMV is telling you that you need to have a "certified Automotive Engineer" sign off on the vehicle? You won't find such a requirement in the General Statues of CT. http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/titles.htm
You will not find a PE to sign off on this. A PE is only supposed to sign off on his own specialty area, and in what he supervised or did the design on. Without seeing the build-up, proof the welding was done by a certified welder, etc, your SOL. Plus he/she will be liable if there is a failure and accident. One of the States I'm licensed in sends out a quarterly newsletter with recent disciplinary action suits against engineers for all sorts of things, just to remind the engineers about the ethics in the practice.
To bad you could find some one that is a engineer building wood wagons.. or Find a Highly regarded Welder Tradesman to inspect your Welds.. and sign it off..
This isn't a ratrod build nor is it a riddler winner build. Problem is its considered a composite vehicle in the state of CT and needs to be inspected. The inspection paperwork asks. For manufacturer name and date as well as a year of manufacture. While going through this process with a buddies car he asked the question at the inspection station. The inspector told him needed to be signed off on by an engineer. Inspector also said "we used to have a guy " but he doesn't work there anymore. I emailed DMV as that's the only way to get any answers. I got a reply from a sergeant and here is his exact words. " You can use a homemade frame on a composite motor vehicle, as long as this frame was inspected by a certified automotive engineer and cleared by him, that this frame meets all the requirements by automotive manufacturers. We will accept a detailer report on the frame as part of the composite vehicle application." Now the composite vehicle guidelines that the DMV posts on their website state that the frame must support the vehicles weight with out flexing. And if cut between the front and rear suspension it should be cut on a 45 deg angle if possible and plated for 12" No where does it mention an engineer. But realistically they won't pass you and if they don't pass you you don't get a vin number. I'm not ready to be inspected but I wanted clarification before I complete the project. I'd rather find out now that I need to do something different for a frame Doug Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Its probably not a bad idea to have home build frames inspected. We all know that there are people out there who don't have a clue that they are not qualified to be designing, modifying, or fabricating frames. But if the state of CT is going to require an inspection or certification , it should be required to make either state inspectors or industry engineers available , and it should clearly define the requirements and process. I love our government......don't you ??
Those are my thoughts exactly. I have no issue having the frame inspected. But to tell me to look on the Internet and not have that requirement actually posted anywhere is bs. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I talked briefly with them at the Bristol swap meet. I definitely will go talk to them Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Sorry to bring up old news, but what was there a resolution here? I've already fabricated a 2"x3"x0.25" square tube chassis and will need to register as composite due to the diesel engine in a former ODBII gasoline chassis. I'm a "Senior Quality Engineer" in the Aerospace biz, but nowhere near a P.E. Has anyone had any recent interaction with the CT DMV in this regard and are they still holding to this standard?
Just curious as to why a "existing gas vehicle with a true VIN" would even need to go through a composite inspection in CT. ? The manager of the local A-Zone has a Ford gas truck that he changed to Dodge diesel. I am sure my son said that it was a simple process at an approved smog station, to get the papers switched to "test as diesel specs". In other words, he did not need to have to go to DMV. I am thinking his Ford may have been registered in his name before the swap, but I can ask. I am pretty sure an out of state vehicle needs to be "safety inspected", but that might be on newer cars or older, I don't recall. A vehicle that was previously regestered in CT, does not need a "saftey inspection", but does need a smog test if it is not old enough to be exempt. I think it's CTDMV.org for their site? The requirements should be listed. Lots of those swaps around, so it must be easy?
I do recall looking into this, and I believe the requirement is the new engine has to meet the same emissions standards as the original equipment. Hard to pass an '83 Mercedes diesel as a '97 ODBII gasoline four-banger...
No resolution on my end as im not ready for an inspection yet. Still havent found a so called certified automotive engineer in the state of CT yet. DMV sargent told me to just look online. I do know there are dmv regs that state you cant put an older motor into a newer vehicle. I believe its for the emissions
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