Hi, ok. So i'm having a pretty hot flathead built by a vintage engine machine shop, and im not sure i should be happy with the work. Its a 59A with a **** 286cui rotating ***embly, 1.6" Provalves and ***ociated hardware, brand new everything besides block and sump. I got photos of the progress via email, i cant get to the shop for maybe a month. Well im disapointed by what i see, looks like a 10 year old painted it, theres rust scale in the water gallerys, and the porting and relief look like they were done with the carbide bit only, not smoothed with stones or drum sanders. What are your EXPERIENCED opinions and what should i do, ive payed him already.
I dunno where the land of the white cloud is, nor where your getting it built at, but maybe someone flathead savy is nearby the shop that would stop in and look at in on your behalf. The HAMB reaches far and wide as you know.
Some of my flathead books talk about leaving the intake ports on the "rough" side. It doesn't get too much velocity and the roughness helps to keep the fuel in suspension. There's usually a lot of casting flash and sand left over in the bottom of the water jackets. Did they do any sort of cleaning out with a rod or anything before machining? Can do it after, but have to be real careful where the debris ends up. RB
Unless you shot blast the block, there's no way to get all of the rust scale out of there. And if you shot blast it, there's usually extra machine work involved to fix the surfaces screwed up by the shot blasting. It does seem that they did a piss poor job of cleaning the outside of the block, a wire wheel on a grinder would have taken car of that. But the rest of it "looks" ok. The porting looks fine and it's hard to tell about the relief work but again, doesn't look bad. I'd generally guess that if the engine builder isn't taking the time and effort to make the outside look good then how much faith can you put in his machine work? But then again, I've known a guy who didn't give a damn about the outside appearance of the engine and inside was ****-n-span and perfectly machined.
"ive payed him already". Hope this isn't a scenario where the builder is starting to rush because the work has already been paid for. You should always hold a percentage of the job in a final payment so you have some leverage anytime a tradesman is doing work for you. Is the builder including a warranty with the machine work/***embly?
I agree, I've been in the machine shop business since late sixties.. I usually leave the outsides more or less up to the customer, unless he wants to pay quite a bit extra. The bottom line is labor time.. External cosmetics, done correctly, can take a lot of time. Polished ports are eye candy for old guys. Proven that carbide finish flows and keeps mixture in suspension.. The only way to clean 100 percent of inside the case is a chemical dip. EPA has shut down most all local chem stripping business. Hell, they want reams of paper work just for a hot tank..and are quite liberal with fines. Thats why most shops have gone to big dishwasher type cleaners. With very mild cleaners as compared with "the good stuf" we used to use. Or bake and blast..Blast only cleans what shot can reach fron the outer windows of the block.. All in all, from the pics, the work looks good.
Looks good to me. An important part of porting an 8BA is inside the four corner exhaust outlets. There is a bunch of **** that gets caught in the outside corners, clean it out with a grinder. Make sure he puts on the bolt lock on the cam gear, they like to work loose.
There are far more experienced machinists here than me, so I'll not join that part, but why the Hell would you pay in full for a job up front? Don't you read ANY of the discussions on this board? How many have you read that say "I paid up front and I am fully satisfied with all the work that was done and got what I paid for in a very timely manner"?
BOBCRMAN, you are correct. Good old fashioned chemical hot tanks are almost as rare as bigfoot these days. Dave50 on the HAMB did a flathead for me last year, he has a large propane hot tank (Had to fight the fire marshall tooth and nail to keep it) and the block looked like it came right off the Ford ***embly line. Terrific!
I doesn't look like "Bad" work but I don't like the primer and I do feel it should look a little more presentable if you want your customer to be happy. Details mean a lot. This is a Flathead I just did, no paint and washed in an "old fashion" hot tank. Doesn't take the rust out but cleans pretty good.
It's best not to remove a great amount of material from around the valve area of the block!! This engine is known to crack through the exhaust valve seat !!Did you notice the holes drilled through the the block at each lifter bore ? They ain't for oil---adjusting the valve lash can be a royal pain--not as much as grinding the valve stem to achieve proper clearance--I give the machinist an A+ --You sir should have prep that block before dropping it off at the machine shop!!!!!!!!!! With out checking this work with a micrometer !!!!! I'm just talking out my ***ssssssssssss
Well, i asked him to tidy up the work and he flipped out. He also claimed adamantly all exposed areas of the block were painted... Ridiculous.
All i can say is mctim64 has taken his photo in a dull or shady setting and the engine builder has a lot of reflections on all the shiny surfaces in all his photo,s. Taking a photo of a shinny metal object is a PITA for an amateur photographer. Allways reflections and shadows. Anyway the engine builder will want to keep his good name , he,s on an Island ( or two )
Cant speak for the flathead specific machine parts but that port job is 100% normal. It has been hit with sandpaper rolls as a standard carbide burr would leave little impressions and not the smooth 360* lines you can see in your pictures. I've seen cylinder heads by several professional engine shops and most of them look that way after porting unless its for a picture to be put up on the internet.
Thanks for the khudos John Glad your happy. (Its not propane Though) I hope these pics can help you compare yours to another. It is a lot of work to get a block thoroughly clean and to make most people happy when they pick up a engine from a machine shop. And most people comlain about the charge if we charge them actuall labor to do so... We eat a lot of cleaning time on every Engine but we also have a standard and it is very high for a clean block (oil p***ages water etc) Best of luck with your build If you need any help shoot me a pm
Ok im yes pretty disapointed with rust in the jackets, however its the relief that pisses me off, look again at the grinder work, at one point he cuts right into the too of the bore for gods sake!
The relief aint flash but plug off your water pump outlets and fill your water jackets to just under the decks with a 4:1 mix of mol***es and water. Leave it in for a week or so then flush with clean water and your jackets will come out clean enough that they'll look like they were just cast. It' ll run way cooler trust me. Rat
If you take a look at the close ups above youll see its more than just a bad photo, at one point he's taken a chunk out of the bore.
The very entrance to the intake port is always going to be the easiest to drum sand. its the relief thats shabby, and hes made no attempt to flow the bowl of the intake, valve guide boss should be refined.
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