Ford A/FX Torsion front suspension

I was kinda thinking the same thing...they look sort of...industrial or something.

 

Just found this thread. Don't know if you saw this yet, powrshftr. Page 2 has some more photo's like the ones I posted.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430854&page=2

 

Thanks Born.You're hitting them outta the park tonight Brother!

 

If you go all the way back to page 4 you can see me get my pee pee whacked for mentioning the M-word...:S
I know it's not usually accepted on the HAMB,but this topic has some really cool historical and tech significance,and the setup was shared by Mustang,Falcon and I'm pretty sure Comet A/FXers......I'm actually waiting for a reply from a HAMBer who owns some Comet A/FX and B/FX cars...Hoping he could give me a shove in the right direction.

 

Just sent an email to Cobra Automotive...We'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

Which falcon? Ford destroyed the poppy orange/red car that had the twisted leaf front suspension in the 60's. Bonner said Ford thought it was unsafe. I believe Bonner said Holman Moody did that front suspension, and if he could have one car back it would be that one. I hope that you find out cuz i'm interested too.

Meltdown Drags 2014 July 19, 20

 

II Funny: Why the hell didn't I think of that..!?!?
I'll call Holman/Moody as soon as I get a chance today.They are always very helpful with questions,and they never seem to be to busy to take your calls.
Thanks,

Scott


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

Check out posts 3439 and 3442 on this thread...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136384&highlight=twist+leaf&page=172

 

The 65 T-Bolt had the Twisted Leaf type suspension....

 

Both Bonner Falcons have been MIA for years. A stated by a previous poster the poppy red '65 Falcon was returned to Ford by Phil in 1966 when he recieved his longnose Mustang. The Falcon was crushed. The blue '64 Falcon has been searched for by many and all indications show that it was wrecked in Chicago by street racers but other stories are out there.

There is a very nice replica of the '64 Falcon that was built by Jim Cagle. He bought the original car fom Phil in 1965. He spent lots of time and money trying to find it again and could not so a replica was built.

Which M/T T-bolt did you "restore", they had two? Were you involved with Jerry Moreland and his "restorations"? If so it sounds like you drove the Brannan Falcon.....

 

I never saw any Fairlane A/FX cars from '65.I'm sure there are some out there,I'm just not familiar with them.
And the Thunderbolts were a 64-only deal that were built to run Super Stock,so swapping out the front suspension would be a no-no as far as the rule book goes...

 

There was one and that is the car he speaks of.

 

Thanks Pops.That shot of the Brannan awb car all wadded up actually shows that funky looking attachment point pretty clearly.
Nice catch!

 

Also,I called Holman/Moody today and talked for about half an hour with a guy whose name I never did get,but he proceeded to tell me how the cars evolved from heavily modded stock bodies,to cut in half in front of the windshield and spliced to lengthen them,and finally to f/g bodies on H/M fabricated ch***is.
When I asked if the parts used were from another Ford product line or some other off the shelf,stock item,he said he was pretty sure they had fabricated everything as they went,and that they calculated the length of the torsion spring so that it would act as the front section of a big lower A-arm;the actual lower control arm being the other part,and he said they took the stock strut rod and turned it around to face rearward to triangulate and strengthen everything,all while finding the proper location for attachment point of the torsion spring so that during the wheel's travel through it's range of motion,the spring would not influence the direction of the wheel by exerting force on the control arm in an improper way...
When I asked if it was a nightmare to prototype it and get it set up properly,he replied:"Not really,just bolt a steel plate on in place of the wheel,run the suspension through it's travel with a dial indicator on the plate,and pick the mounting point that is basically neutral.It's similar to the kind of thing we were doing with the GT-40's....It's amazing what you can remember off the top of your head after 50 years,idnit....?"
He was a real character this guy,and a wealth of information.
When I asked if he had any photos or blueprints he could provide,he said they had all kinds of development photos and technical drawings of the A/FX cars,but that they could not mail anything out...dammit.
BUT,he said that visitors to the shop are allowed access to ALL that information,AND they are free to take photographs of anything they want to,including literature and do***entation.
Looks like a trip to Charlotte is in order soon!

 

I wonder how this setup would work for a street car? Like something intended to actually go through corners fast.


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

Honestly,I think it might be pretty sketchy in the cornering department....I was kind of concerned about how it would stand up to the odd pothole or road irregularity,but the gentleman I spoke to at Holman/Moody today gave me a ton of confidence regarding their engineering and execution of this project.If it was a ****ty,cobbled together death trap,H/M would wash their hands of the entire project,in my opinion.
Like he said,this was no big deal for them,they got Ford's GT-40 program off the ground.
That being said,I'm pretty sure that a freeway onramp at 60mph with a roaring 427 SOHC and this suspension setup would be an excellent opportunity for your best pal to try his hand at giving your eulogy...lol

 

Random brain games engineering exercises..... I've wondered about swapping the strut rods out for torsion bars. It seems a much better way of creating engine room than the M2 swap that everybody is chomping at the bit to do these days.

Any reason WHY you couldn't do this and still have a car that handles? I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing. It's still just a spring as far as the suspension is concerned. I recognize that with a big block there are lots of weight issues to also take into account, but with an engine somewhat within the original weight parameters of the car?

The biggest issue I can see is reinforcing the LCA to absorb the new forces being placed in it. Weld a plate on the bottom to box it in? Maybe a length of appropriately sized square tube?

I've got a way down the road fantasy of swapping to a 300 so I keep my eyes open for tricks people pull to increase header room.


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

It might work quite well with the control arms boxed as you say,or aftermarket tubular ones (which is the route I was told they later went at H/M on the awb cars,although they were fabbed in house).
If you wanted it to handle,I guess throwing a decent size sway bar on would probably get it to work as well as the stock coils,right...?
Without a doubt,you would gain a ton of room for your header(s).

 

There's got to be someone else on this board that has a few pictures,or knowledge of this setup....Any help you can contribute,even the smallest detail, would be greatly appreciated guys.

Thanks,

Scott

 

The 65 T-Bolt ran B/FX....... Search this thread for pictures and info. Real Deal

 

Try as I might I can't see the strut rod to the rear in the Mustang pics, just drum or disc brakes..I see a right hand drive steering box on the out side of the left frame rail and the LCA look to be well boxed but the headers still are tucked between the main rails, musta been a night mare..I don't know how to blow the pic up, probably see way more..

 

i would think that there would be a few issues, as a spring flexes it grows in length (as it flattens out) so it would be pushing back on the lca. There might be ways around this but for a driven street or handling car it would eventually cause premature wear on the lower control arm. i wonder if it would change the caster enough as the suspension compressed to make it handle funky?

just ramblings, no facts or proof in the above statement

matt

 

scratch that i went back an re-looked at the photos and the springs are pretty much flat, no compression-lengthening here!

sorry for mucking up a very cool thread with nonsense

matt

 

Good point Matt.The thing with this setup is,it's not operating like a leaf;it just happens to use flat stock instead of round stock for the torsion bar.
A leaf spring grows when it's compressed and the arch comes out of it,then one end is held rigidly,and the other moves back and forth to some degree on the shackle.With this setup there is none of that,as the leaf is heavy enough that it doesnt bend,but it has a 45 degree twist in the center,and tries to "un-twist" or flatten itself as downward force is applied to it....I'm surprised you're the first guy to mention this...I thought of that the first time I looked at pictures of it too!

 

Hey Matt,
Don't ever be sorry for using your head.You made a valid point that some may have been wondering about,and you didn't muck anything up.
Cheers,

Scott

 

It is changing lengths some, just not to the extend that a quarter elliptical does. That would still have to be accounted for though.

The mounts in the pic look as though they'd locate the LCA with less play than the stock system.

I'm really jonesing for more info on this now.


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

I know!!! Every time I get more info,it just makes me want more.
Those front mounting points and the part connecting the spring to the control arm are obviously not just custom pieces made to some randomly specific dimensions.....They HAD to be from another application SOMEWHERE.
Finding somebody who can say what their origins were is the tricky part after 50 years have elapsed......

 

And I still havent heard from Cobra Automotive.....maybe theyre just not "email guys".....I know a lot of car guys aren't.
Guess it's time to phone them tomorrow.

Scott

 

Here is a couple pics of the kit.