so...where to get ethanol friendly carb parts, fuel pumps?

Does anyone know any good reliable sources for ethanol friendly carb parts and fuel pump parts for us guys using early Strombergs, Holleys, Carter AFB's, and mechanical fuel pump diaphrams? or do we resort to using an additive or something in the fuel to counteract what it does to the rubber parts in these older units? I live in Oregon. I have 2 rebuilt Carter AFB's that were rebuilt about 5 years ago and have been in my garage in sealed containers. I'm concerned about stuff drying out and having to replace them, or re-kit them and need to know if they make stuff like needle & seats, accelerator pumps, gaskets, diaphrams, etc that would last with ethanol fuels in use today in vintage cars and their parts....and where to buy them. Thanks.

 

**** carb parts ****shotrodplace@aol.com he is a HAMBer

 

Ethanol resistant fuel pump kits are available from:

http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm

And we supply leather accelerator pumps in virtually all of the 10,000 plus different carburetor rebuilding kits we make.

Jon.

 

I think we should discuss ethanol more and its negative effect on our old tin. This was in Hemmings recently....raising the levels to 30%.

EPA proposes increasing ethanol content in fuel to 30 percent | Hemmings Blog

Murph

 

Except for flexfuel vehicles no modern car is going to run on 30% alcohol.

Old cars with carb jets you can drill out will be the only thing on the road if they go to that. It will be nice not having to fight traffic ever!

 

more paranoia

 

Exactly, I can throw bigger jets in and advance the timing a bit and have the '51 singing on 30% in about 20 mins. Within an hour, every carbed vehicle I own could be setup and purring on 30%. My OT daily with its narrow band O2 sensor doesn't stand a chance though....although with 256,000 miles on it, Mr. Planned Obsolescence has been riding shotgun for some time now.

You guys who are panicky about ethanol have all forgotten how to be hot rodders. A good Hot Rodder would figure out a way to make their cars run on maple syrup if that was the only thing available.

Bingo, too many Chicken Littles.....

 

You might be surprised, people have experimented with running varying amounts of alcohol in late model non-flexfuel cars for quite some time now. 30% is pretty close to the limit that most will run on, based on experiments conducted by people I know. There are even some stations around here that sell E30 already for this purpose.

Carbureted cars should have no problem running on whatever percentage alcohol content you feel like. Just re-jet the carburetor accordingly. The biggest problem is that you can't switch between E10 and E85 as easily as you can with a flexfuel car, and you run the risk of damaging rubber components in the system. I haven't seen any issues running ethanol in any cars produced in the last 40 or so years but the HAMB friendly cars will likely be more sensitive to damage.

 

We just got a kit for a Rochester 4V 1955 Olds from Daytona Carbs and it had a blue ethanol pump, and they had new powervale and power pistons in stock.

 

why does corn **** with rubber parts? I was told it also creates moisture in your tank,

 

Alcohol absorbs moisture, it doesn't cause it. If anything I'd expect your tank to have less water in it than if you ran pure fuel. You might be surprised at how much water you pump in your gas tank, some gas stations have a lot of it in their storage tanks.

 

we have friendly gas stations here in central oregon...Parts can get expensive...but I guess its win loss...

 

Wasn't the T and A both designed to run on alcohol ?

 

The T was. By the time the A came around alcohol fuel was a forgotten idea, probably because it made no more thermodynamic sense then than it does now. But a farmer could make alcohol then and he could now, it just generally isn't a productive use of crops and time and energy. If you had eighty acres and had to make your own alky fuel to run the tractor to plow them it would take twenty of those eighty acres, so you get sixty acres of produce from eighty acres. In Brazil it's a little different because sugar cane is much more efficient as an alcohol producer. There are crops like switchgr*** we could grow over here more efficient than corn but getting the alcohol made efficiently from them is not a perfected process.

The T would run on all kinds of ****, casinghead gas, various solvents, kerosene, etc, with minor modifications.

 

Car gas is made to absorb a certain amount of water, because since the thirties cars don't have a drain bowl or gascolator or a tank drain to get it out. Aviation gas is made to reject water so it settles out and is sump drainable. Once car gas is water saturated though, the water goes to the bottom of the gas station's tanks and is supposed to be ****ed off the bottom or drained.

 

You hit it on the head.

 

The rejetting fly-in-the ointment is the variability that's out there. 15% and 30% would require different jets, and if these new mixes and standards come to p*** chances are that there will be different ones out there at the same time...all probably incorrectly labeled and mixed. You might have to rejet at each tankful, and do so from scratch with no trustworthy information to allow calculation.
Current 10% is on the edge, allowing stock earlies to run but not at full steam. More than that will start requiring rejetting to get anywhere, and if we start seeing a range from zero to 10 to 30 out there at the same time we'll have a real mess...a simple trip might require efforts like setting up a new racecar.
Model A and B people may be the best survivors...see that little knob on the dash??
We already have food and energy dislocations from ethanol...question may well be whether common sense might triumph over the farm subsidy lobby...but that's not a suitable topic here and will kill the thread.

 

I've said it before, but I'll repeat myself again.
My Jeepster is running e85 right now! 67 Buick 340, holly carb, cheap Mr gasket pump
It's been running that in the summer for a good 5 years now.

I have NOT seen any weird rubber being eaten, funny growth in the bowls NOTHING.

My only problem is cold starts in the winter. It's a ***** to start around freezing.

I use to switch jets every year but I've grown lazy and run rich in the wintertime. just back the timing out of it and go.

 

I'd like to know more about this.

 

Holleys for aftermarket are traditionally a tad rich, and E85 should need a bit of enrichment, like maybe 5%...

 

Here in Canada either run marine fuel (no ethanol) or high test 91 octane (also no ethanol). Ethanol is more costly to produce and actually makes your emissions worse, but they don't want us to know that because they make too much off our etests. And I am sure everyone knows who 'they' are.

 

First off, I'm @ 5k feet in Colorado. The carb is a Holley 4160. The engine is a 67 Buick 340 with lower compression v6 pistons, which ****s :-(. The heads have never been rebuilt, and the valve guides are leaking oil lol

So for gas I use a 62 primary jets and around 14 deg advance. I didn't change the secondary plate.

For the e85 I run a 66 (which is good for gas @ sea level 30% larger) and as much advance as I could get with an HEI on a Buick engine before it hits the intake, around 22. I also put the big ramp on for the accelerator pump (red?)

That's about it. It would be perfectly happy in the winter on about e50 or so, because I start to mix in e10 (normal gas around here) in early October before it gets to cold.

The gas tank is a scout 20 gallon I lined with the POR15 kit to seal the mods I did to it to fit.
3/8" brake lines for the fuel and new rubber hoses from oreilys.

Edit: back to the original question
NO special parts at all. All gaskets pump Ect are newer over the counter stuff.


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Great summary. Thanks!

 

Your very welcome

One thing I may have going for me is the climate. 50% humidity is high around here.

Today is "cool" and could rain. 80 deg and 48% RH right now.
So perhaps my vented tank is not gathering nearly as much moisture compared to more humid climates.

Good luck, and there is a social group for alternative fuels.
I've got more info in there.

 

couple diffferent thoughts

My 2006 flex fuel Silverado gets 30% worse mileage on E85 than gas, so I need the price of E85 to be 30% less than gas, we're not there yet.

Im interested in flex fuel compatible rubber hoses and carb kits, not to run E85, just so I dont have trouble later. Whats hose is recommended to stand up to alcohol, I'll run holley or edelbrock carbs.

Im glad someone brought up Brazil, I used to travel there for work they run very high alcohol content fuel. consider how much Obama has been to Brazil in the past few years, do you think all of the alcohol going into US fuel comes from corn ? It sounds good, sounds patriotic that we are supporting the local farmers by buying alcohol blended fuel, but Ive never seen the stats on how much of the alcohol that goes into our US fuel is actually from US corn.

 

Corn-based fuels is extremely inefficient. Partly, how much fuel is actually used up in creating the corn-based fuels (even E10). I believe in Brazil they use a gr***-based fuel. It's a far more efficient use of crop fuel, and they can make a lot more of it. Bonus, it's not food, either. We're starting to get all that from China, though.

 

Let me ask 'this' then. For winter/? storage. (nearest real gas is over 100 miles away) Best to have the tank full to the neck? Or remove the tank to drain/dry any leftover?

 

If you must use blended gas in anything with an open air vent system (basically anything that doesn't have a modern closed fuel injection system), it's best not to let it sit any longer than you need to use it.

When exposed to outside air, ethanol starts to take on moisture almost immediately, settling in all low spots, turning to a very corrosive gel, and forming solid layers which eventually will break loose and cause blockage. Search "phase separation" for more technical info.

I realize the HAMB is a large group, but I'm always amazed that a few always show up on the ethanol threads to actually defend it, while all of the other small engine, vintage motorcycle and marine groups are well on top of it.
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I'm always amazed by people who will turn a TECH thread on ethanol into a rant against it. Good, bad, or indifferent the stuff is here and it makes sense to learn how to deal with it rather than sticking our heads in the sand and pretend like it's going away. And SAN lobbying against it just paints a big target on the auto hobby as a bunch of cranks for the environmentalists to get rid of.

 

And that was exactly the original reason for the post. How to deal with it using available parts that will work and the sources for those parts. So instead of defending the problem "gas" how about solutions.