In NZ our stockcar rules limit the engine size to 241 cu in. They use lexus v8's and sleaved or destroked chevy's etc. A common Ford solution is an overbored 221 with 302 crank and rods. They also used some smaller Yates Heads on them. They need approx. 400-425 hp to be compe***ive. The biggest issue is 95db noise limit. mufflers don't cut it, the noise of them screaming goes right through the engine block [which is out in the open ] You'll need to Google NZ speedway, and Macgor's NZ speedway
A bored 239 Y-Block would be close in cubes Mummert heads and a Blue Thunder intake may do the trick,do some reading up on Karol Miller who set several Bonneville records with Y-Blocks,it can be done.Hang out here for awhile:http://y-blocksforever.com/ and check out Ted Eaton's posts you may get a whole new perspective.
The last Y-block build I saw ended up at around 375inches and 575hp with a set of those Mummert heads and intake.It was evil. I think at equivalent cubic inches those heads,as good as they are,would get left in the dust by a set of CHI or Yates Cleveland heads. I guess it all depends on how you dance around the rules and what cl*** you get the car prepped for. I'll tell ya what though:Now you guys have got ME itching to build a small cubic inch,Cleveland headed LSR car....this stuff sounds like a ton of fun! Scott Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Sounds to me like this is not for Bonneville, listening to the general tone of the OP they are trying to move up from 350 HP. To push that car to 135 will take about 440 HP. To get under 260 if bored 3o it will need to be destroked to 2.8. To get 44o HP we need 12-1 compression, E7TE heads ported to 230 intake, 155 exhaust, 1.84 intake/1.54 exhaust (remember 3.83 bore). The CdA will be about 11. Here is an engine plan.
The OP just chose the wrong car for the cl***. He is having to compete with more modern and more powerful engines compared to what his choices are for engines to stay in the Production cl***. If Bonneville was easy, everyone would be doing it. As Rich pointed out, moving up to the Gas cl*** which has the record at over 200 is going to required deeper pockets to be compe***ive. Its also not the cl*** he wants to race in, so his only choices for engines are either the 6 cylinder or Y-block. Swapping to the later modern 289 style engine will require a cl*** change if he's OK with that.
Remember that 260 is only a number though Hoop...As far as I know,he doesn't need to stick with an original small bore 260 style block,and he will be way ahead to start with a later model 289/302/5.0 block that is cheaper,easy to find,and most importantly,will unshroud the valves a bit. Also,if I was going to try to make serious power with this thing,I would definitely steer clear of E7 heads,as on their best day,ported like crazy and with bigger valves,230cfm on the intake side is about the best those things will flow at around .600" lift.A decent set of Cleveland heads will flow that much at .400",and you will have the same money into them for machining,and probably less money to port the Cleveland's. Also,there are many used aftermarket heads that could be bought cheaper than doing all the work on a stock Cleveland or Windsor head,but if er're talking modifying stock parts,I would stick with the Cleveland heads. Of course,there's also the possibility that after one too many cups of coffee,I entirely misunderstood your post,and completely missed your point too.....I tend to do that when my OCD and my ADHD collide.....it ain't pretty...! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Hahahaaaaaa!I totally read you George.I was just throwing a best case scenario Y block motor out there to kinda illustrate that in this case it would be ******* into the wind to try to stick with one,when the deck is stacked against it in this application... I wanna see a baby Boss motor in this thing that revs like a 2 stroke dirtbike...! I've always had an interest in LSR cars,but this thread actually has me interested in doing some serious homework,building my best combo,and taking some vacation time to scare myself silly on some dry lakebeds and old runways down in the States... Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
260 was the CID limit. Destroking a 2.87 crank to 2.8 would be cheap, use chevy rods. That gives us a 3.83 bore 258 CID. This more would preclude even a 351C 2V Australian head with its 2.04-1.65 valves and required cut into the piston land. I picked the Airflow of a well ported set of the E7 heads from the Stan Weiss data. Looking at the goals of 135 MPH with that vehicle worked out to about 440 HP. The 57 Wagon could do about 102 with around 170 net hp. It looked like the cheap destroker 258 with ported E7 heads could achieve that. A next step that's possible would be a 3.905-2.7 with Honda rods. The 2.54 stroke required for a 4 inch bore would be a custom forging. A 3.905/2.7 with Ported y303 heads (53cc 250/175 1.94 1.54) would get us up to 475 or so. After that the budget horse has left the barn and we are off to something more like Falcon is talking about. The 475 would get that 55 into the 140s. Here is the 475 horse. Oh and of course no amount of power could make that 55 barn door go faster than a sub-compact Monza. just playin around
Based on the 239 block the 1954 Ford Police Interceptor and 1954 Mercury were 256 cubic inches.The 239 was used in 1954 cars and 1954-55 Ford F-100's it is not real uncommon to find running 239's for free since a lot of guys want to swap out for the bigger 292 & 312's.Here is one in TN he may still have (not free but close)http://1954ford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2738 Here are some specs to check out:http://www.ford-y-block.com/displacement.htm If you still had the 272 block from your '55 look at what a 239 crank does to displacement
OP here . Thanks for the build info . Our goal is to approach the records in ECTA or LTA. Every car guy should go to Bonneville and we will take a car but lower our expectations and have fun. Could catch the fever though. In this case we are willing to spend $1000 for every 100hp that someone can deliver . So if we could get to 500hp for less than $6K- great. I ***ume that 500hp is easier to get with a destroked 302 than a Y block but I'm willing to learn. As I understand the rules we are not compression limited -race gas is fine.Carb. Era correct induction.Same family of engine.No feedback electronics allowed, which eliminates modern engines.
Tim's been fooling with this Y-block thing a while......and Charlie Burns even longer... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573420
Ok Here is the latest recipe, 602 HP, 259.3 CID, AFR 165 Heads CNC 1.9-1.6 Heads, 3.86 bore, 2.77 stroke offset ground 289, 2.0 Inch Rod Journal, 5.4 Rod 280/283 @ .050, .640 solid roller.
The crank is the unknown, getting that 2.77 stroke. Of course with that short a stroke our piston speeds etc are reasonable @ 8500. For 500 HP you can back it down from the edge some if the crank won't take it. I hear these guys can get 4340 2.87 cranks from ****. http://www.cobraautomotive.com/ hoop
You could always run a 1954 256 Mercury Y block or but a destroke 302 in a 1963 1/2 Falcon Sprint they look pretty slippery.
Yes , I like the recipe. I don't have my SCTA rulebook yet but I do have my ECTA rulebook .Cl***ic Production requires a engine from the same engine design family. The rulebook specifically states that crate engines, Dart blocks , are ok . We don't need to use old iron . However a engine like a Ford Taurus SHO V8 would not be ok because it is so different from the pre 1982 engines. I don't want a rule discussion to break out. Keep the recipes coming ,maybe add some new ingredients.
Yes , those blocks are fine in the 55 for Cl***ic Production. Great thing about land speed racing is your car can find a cl*** to run in.
Go with the big bore and destroke to get the 260 inches, that way you can use a good big valve head that wont be shrouded by a small bore.
If you have the money Callies has a crank for a 302 that goes down to a 2.600" stroke http://www.callies.com/crankshafts/magnum/dragonslayer-small-block-ford/ With the 2.600" stroke with a domed piston with the stock compression height of 1.600" you could use a off the shelf 5.315" connecting rod http://www.coasthigh.com/Probe-4340-Lightweight-I-Beam-Rods-5-315-Length-p/11670.htm
That's pretty cool but you would need probably 2.55 to slide under 260 but that would make everything a lot easier. Any decent aluminum heads could have you in the high 500 potential.
If you were to overbore the block .040" over then sleeve it down to a 3.985" bore would get you in at 259.4 cu in with the 2.600" crankshaft. A undersize .015" (3.985") custom piston shouldn't be that hard to have made. http://www.probeindustries.com/v/download/probe_pistonform.pdf
At 500hp you're pushing the limits of a stock SBF block. They split down the middle, through the cam and crank bores. Someone makes a valley girdle to help this, but I haven't heard great results by using them. If you want 500+ hp you really need a Boss or a World block to start with. p.s. For what it's worth, I have a 289 with 9.5 compression, 4x2's, good heads, and a 284/294 .512" hyd roller cam - I'd guess it to be around 350hp or so. (would probably make a little more with a single 4V carb). Went 12.19 @110 in my A coupe. Adding a couple points of compression and a bigger cam probably wont get you to 600. I'd guess 450-500 realistically. Maybe with a knife edge lightweight crank, light rods and pistons, dry sump, etc etc you could hit 600 with a 260, but I don't think you would do it for $6000. That said, I've always wanted to build a big dollar 289 - just cause.
A stock sbf will handle 500hp all day long.Some of the older,better castings with thicker main webbing,or the Mexican 302s will handle 600-650 without a problem. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
That's the whole problem as usual the budget. If you can get a 2.6 2.123 rod journal from Callies then you can offset ground to 2.51 Then you could find a used Dart, World, FRP block and go 4.03 or 4.06. Then Victor Junior heads Super Victor Intake, 2 Inch Spacer, stepped tube headers;
Here is a time to speed plot estimate at Sea Level 70 degrees, you should be able to get that 55 wagon to around 10.2 CdA. With 28 inch tall tires 3.90 gear 1-1 ratio 5 speed. Of course Bonneville has a density al***ude of around 5000 feet so it is a lot slower for a normally aspirated car if you got that far.
Hoop,I love that computer program you are running. Do you think,if I provided you with some very detailed specs and data,it could tell us why everything I build ends up being about 1/2 as fast as I was hoping....? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
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