Ok, bear with me, I thought I had this figured out... apparently not. I'm trying to wire the 22o outlet for my welder... I have a double pole 50 amp breaker in the box, red and black on the breaker, white neutral, and copper ground. I wired the outlet the same, red and black on the sides, white on top (I think) and green on bottom, 4 prongs. Here is where it gets tricky. The welder can run single or dual phase, I have it set to single, and the manual is telling me to use the black and white and disconnect the red from the switch???? but since black and red are hot, don't I need those 2 for 220?? The welder comes on, but it gives me an error that I have the wrong input. My brother is an electrician, so I might be able to get him to come over and look, but I thought I'd see if I can get some help here too. b.t.w., it's a ESAB 350 mpi. nate
All you need is to run 220v is to wire two hot legs which are your 110v ( one black, one green) and your nuetral (white) and your golden! What plug are you wiring into? Is this at your shop, house???
HRH, I've got a 4 prong plug, so I have a black, red, white and green (ground). It's out in the garage. The welder has 4 wires also, the manual says for double phase use all four, for single phase disconnect the red, but then I loose one of my hot wires. I think maybe I need both the red and the black and the neutral, and I just have to figure out what goes where. the manual has a wiring diagram, but those 3 wires are just labeled A, B and C, and a ground to the case.
a scan of the instructions would help.... Why can't you set it to dual phase and just use the 4 wires with it wired the way it is?
If I understand it correctly, you should use all four wires for single phase 220. Red and black are legs of 110, both of which are needed to get 220, and white is the neutral. Green is ground. Disclaimer: I am not an electrician and I don't really know what I am talking about. I just looked this stuff up about a year ago to figure out the new four prong 220 that was put in my garage.
Ok I'm not sure if this is gonna help or make matters worse, but here goes nuthin'... Technically speaking I don't believe household "220" is referred to as 2 phase - some people like to think of it that way as it's made up of 2 out of phase 110 legs, but!!! 220V is SINGLE PHASE - (sure it's made up of 2 - 110 legs but it's still called SINGLE PHASE) given this I think it'd be rather improbable that your welder would refer to it as 2 phase - but one never knows.... Most home type welders I see are rated 110V Single Phase - 220V Single Phase or 208 3 phase - granted there are lots of similar ratings but this is pretty representative (I think). 350 sounds like a BIG machine to me - I'd say it's likely rated for 220V SINGLE PHASE or 208 THREE PHASE. 220 V SINLGE PHASE also make sense to how they suggest you wire it. 2 "hots" - and a ground. They don't need the nuetral in this case. BTW - go look at your 220V (single phase) electric dryer plug - 3 prongs!!
Hey nate. I had that welder wired the same as my dad's was in his shop, using only three of the wires, and had the switch on the back set to single phase. Worked fine. Unfortunately I can't remember which wire I didn't use. I'm not much of an electrician you see. I do remember that I only used three of the wires for the single phase three prong plug. If you're going to use three phase power you'll need to use all four wires though. Three phase ****s(expensive to hook up to house). Hope this helps.
I guess I should have read the post. The switch on the back of the welder switches from single to three phase, not dual phase(if there is such a thing).
I'm sorry, HemiRambler, you're right. single phase or THREE phase... sorry to confuse the issue. I think you're right, and reading ben's response that may confirm, that I need the two hot wires and the ground. I'll get it figured out Thanks for all the responses.
Sounds to me like your outlet is wired correctly, but the welder is switched to three phase, but when it only senses single phase, it's giving you an error message. Gotta love technology, hehe. I hope I've been of some ***istance. Later...
ok, here's where it gets tricky....usually when a 220v circuit is wired without neutral you use black and white for the legs, plus ground. So you'd connect the black and white to the two circuits that come from the breaker, and ground to ground. Red is used when there are two legs plus neutral. So....looks like you need to connect the black and white wires from the welder to the plug so they will connect to the black and red wires on the outlet...which means you leave the neutral (center) contact on the plug disconnected. Make sure the ground connection goes all the way from the welder to the breaker box as ground.
You need the black red and green green is ground , red and black go to your 2 pole breaker Switch your machine to 220 single phase. Dont use the white wire. Its ok Im a proffessional
I would swear that the modern code four prong single phase 220 needs the red and black hot wires hooked up, the white neutral wire hooked up and the green ground hooked up. The old code used only three wires - the red and black hot wires and the white neutral. They used the neutral as a ground (sort of) just like a two prong 110 plug. The whole idea of the new code was to separate the neutral and the ground. The neutral should carry current when the torch is in operation. The ground should not carry any current unless something goes wrong and current gets where it isn't supposed to go. That's my story and I'm sticking to it even if I don't know what I'm talking about.
With a 4 wire hookup you have a red, black, white and bare copper wires. The red and black are connected to the 2 pole breaker and both the white (neutral) and bare copper (ground) are connected to the same ground strip in the load center. -- Chuck
that's the problem..there are too many experts, and there are several different ways to wire it and make it work. If there are 3 wires used on the welder, they need to go to ground, and the two poles of the breaker. Ground is green or bare copper, one wire to the breaker will be black, the other will be white or red depending on what color code the cable or wires use.
OK... Here's my input... (coming from my experience with the pervertedly-***led "Siemens Load Center"...) There are 4 WIRES coming into your panel box: Hot wire #1 Hot wire #2 Neutral wire Ground wire The two "hot" wires are the ones that attach to the left and right strips on the panel box... This makes every other breaker on the SAME SIDE take a DIFFERENT "hot" than the one above or below it... These wires are usually on TOP, going into the two strips of metal that the breakers slide onto when you install them.... The GROUND wire is BARE or GREEN... It attaches to a strip with screws in it to attach various ground wires... The wire coming into the strip with WHITE WIRES going out is the NEUTRAL.... Ignore it... When the dual breaker is installed into the panel box, you'll get one of each "hot" wires connected the breaker... The two screws on the breaker each send a "hot" that is out of phase with the other one, thus creating a 220/240 voltage difference... SO, wire the two SLOTS on the wall outlet to the two "HOTS", and the lower "HOLE" to the GROUND... that's 220/240... You NEED to have TWO HOT WIRES to make 220... The WHITE (neutral) wire is considered a useless piece of **** in this situation... If you need to chance the INTERNAL wiring of the welder, then I'm out of my element... Hope I've helped, and be safe with that wiring ****, man....
I claim no "expert" status in this situation - but I am not exactly electrically challenged either. (Well maybe just a little) 220V single phase is made up of 2 legs of 110v that are 180 degrees OUT of phase. Because of this each becomes (or acts) as the nuetral for the other leg - so to speak - THIS is why you can (but shouldn't) hook up a 220v single phase peice of equipment with JUST 2 HOT WIRES - yes it will work JUST FINE this way - but is it safe??? NO it is NOT!!! That's why the 3rd leg is a GROUND (not a Neutral) The GROUND wire should NOT NORMALLY have any current flowing through it - where as a Neutral would. SO why is there such a thing as 4 wire 220v single phase - well some applicances - like a welder might have a 110v accessory like a water cooler - in this case you USE the neutral for your 110v circuit.
Sorry you're having so much trouble getting this thing hooked up. I had the luxury of already having an outlet wired up, all I had to do was put an end on the welder. Worked fine when I had it. You might give Enjenjo here at the HAMB a PM, because I sold him the other one I had and he's been using it with no problems, maybe he can help you hook it up. Let me know...
This may help. My 220 welders and powder coating kitchen range are hooked up with a standard 220 electric dryer plug and receptical available at all the home stores. I've always refered to the green wire as an equipment ground and it doesn't carry any electricty unless there is a short. It's not part of the circuit. No I'm not an elecrtician.
Thanks again hambers. I believe I have everything from hte panel to the outlet correct, and the plug on the welder correct, it seems like something is not quite right inside the welder, I'll keep at it, probably need professional help
HEY MOE! HEY LARRY! HEY CURLEY! I don't think Laurel and Hardy got this wired up right....Just a little levity here. I too would call your brother to come over and take a look.I'm sure some of the guys are right on though. Gary 4T950 Chevy Guy
Nate, Do you have the 230/440 model? If so did you do this: 2.4.1 230/460V Model NOTE As shipped from the factory, the ESAB 350mpi, 230/ 460 V model, is set for 460 volts input. If you will be operating the machine from a 230 V source, open the switch access panel on the rear panel on the machine and flip the Voltage Selector Switch to the 230 V position. You should have two power and one ground per the instructions: Input Power Cable (Figure 2-3). Before installing the power cable, make sure there is a line (wall) disconnect switch with fuses or circuit breakers at the main power panel. You may either use the factory-installed input power cable (No. 8 AWG, 4/c, type SO (90 °C), 12 ft (3.7 m) length) or provide your own input power leads. If you choose to provide your own, make sure they are insulated copper conductors. You must have two (singlephase) or three (three-phase) power leads and one ground wire. Did you do this: If you have single-phase input power and are using the factory-installed power cable, you must change the ON-OFF switch cable connections from three-phase to single-phase configuration as follows: 1. Remove the 1/4" screws securing the top cover and place them in a safe place. 2. Remove the top cover and set aside. 3. Loosen the ON-OFF switch cable connection L2 located inside the power source. 4. Remove the red wire from cable connection L2. 5. Re-attach the top cover with hardware removed in step 1. I got this off this .pdf which I ***ume is for your machine? http://www.esabna.com/eu/literature/Arc%20Equipment/Power%20Supplies/15-481-G_350mpi.pdf Standard disclaimers as above - I'm not an electrician. That's why I have to RTFM Dennis
Holy Krap! I'm not an electrician but I play one on TV! Throw that ****er away and get yourself a cracker box 110V welder before you fry urself....
Dennis, thanks for looking that up! Unfortunately I did all that and it still calls me an idiot when I turn it on ElPlymino, this is what I get for wanting the works! once I get the bugs worked out I'm going to start building bridges and aircraft
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