Just got off the phone with CPP, he said because I had an S-10 rear end in my car he could not help me....so if you are going to use a rear end besides one from CPP, you cannot expect to get help from them. I asked if I needed maybe a 10# residual valve for the rear...he said as long as I had a pedal and the front was working...that maybe try and match components better.....REALLY?? !!! I suggested that I maybe remove all the CPP stuff and start from scratch as I have not had any brake problems building two from the ground up using the original car donor stuff. I have been over a month on these brakes...getting really PO'd at this point....front seemed ok...but the booster does not act like my vette booster nor my nissan booster as to pedal behavior. I have their 7DSRB-C 7 inch double chrome booster and a CPP AVP-DP proportion valve, the black one. If anyone else had this problem and fixed it...let me know...thanks.
dude call eci brakes out of conn. all hotrod dudes ..they are super helpful and will sort ya out . best of luck ... or explain ur issue to us ???
To answer your question, you shouldn't need a residual with your late model drum brakes, as residuals became obsolete by the middle '70s because of cup expanders and better designs. However, adding one will do no harm, especially if the master is mounted lower than the wheel cylinders, as it will help firm up the pedal.
Not saying this is the case with your build, but I could not get rear brakes to work on my car until we power bled the rear lines. I had a air pocket that did allow some fluid past but not enough to bleed or to allow the brakes to work.
what is the problem? soft pedal? hard pedal? a pull ? locking up of a wheel? what car? what pedal? what front brakes? etc....
Thanks everyone for replying.. The car is the one in the avatar...49 chevy fleetline. It has a TCI MII front end with disc brakes camaro calipers I think...the rear end is a 84 S-10 4wd with 3.42 gears...I rebuilt the orig rear wheel cylinders....then I just bought rebuilt ones yesterday and put them on. The rear rubber hose is new but from China. It has a new CPP chrome 8 inch duel booster with matching MC. The two chambers in the MC look identical ( will try and take some photos tomorrow and post). A CPP valve for balancing front to rear came with the TCI front end and it is installed correctly...the rear brakes today were set so adjusted tight, the car was really hard to roll outside from the basement...no help...I have a good pedal...does not leak down...front brakes work fairly good. The booster drops a little when you first start the car...but does not come back up when you cut the motor off like my nissan pu or corvette does. The rear brakes have been bleed all kinds of ways...dripped freely for a long time, suction gun, two different folks helping bleed the brakes the old way, me applying brakes with a stick putting pressure on the system and bleeding the brakes....the valve has been turned increase/decrease...again , I have a month in these brakes...built two nice street rods and never had the first brake problem...but NEVER USED CPP BRAKES BEFORE, I used GM used parts....the master cylinde was bench bleed with NO air bubbles...the engine is newly rebuilt with no miles on it...283 chevy....the speedometer reads 8 mph with the brakes fully hard applied...the only way to stop the tires so you can put the car in park is put it in neutral first and apply hard pressure to the brake. This is my last full custom build....every part you buy these days is mega bucks, don't work/and mega bucks, needs re-doing, from China and is not worth putting on the car, and re-do's like this brake problem is just about on everything you do nowadays....you just can't go in to the parts place and ask for a brake line...you might get 3 different fittings...clips that hold on stainless breaks before you can get them on the car because they are so brittle...I could write a book on this 49 chevy on just about every part I have bought or ordered....5 years and I can't get it out on the road yet for the first time...still has no fenders, hood, interior, etc. Anyway, I really appreciate all that have replied and will post a fix when I have one...I hate it when I help someone and never hear if it got fixed and what fixed it.
Last week I would have wondered what you meant...but, on Tuesday...my poor kid went to A.Z. to get a 51 and 20 inch 3/16 preflared lines to finish his truck. These are behind the counter, so the worker is supposed to get the right ones. He hates working on cars/trucks. We put the 20" one on in a few minutes. He struggled for 10 minutes trying to thread the 51 into the cramped area of rear cyl. Come to find out, it's 3/16, but metric thread! He goes back to return it, comes home with a 3/16 bubble flared one. Had to bring that one back too. He was so mad he went to a different store and they finally got him the right one. Companies don't pay squat for employees, that IS the problem. You get people who don't get paid to care, or to do a good job.
DING! We have our winner! Post a picture of the master cylinder, and let us know the bore size, and which line (front/rear) is hooked to where. Also, what is the pedal behavior, engine running, and engine off?
Mounted up a CPP kit a few years ago, and have to say not overly impressed. Seemed like it was almost too cookie cutter and everything was approximate. Had to do some work to bolt it up properly. The truck is not running yet and has a Blazer rear, so I am now nervous that I will have problems should I (more likely I will) call for help! Their instructions also leave a lot to be desired. Unless I am mistaken, it sounds like the rear brakes are dragging, am I correct? Have you tried bypassing the valve that came with the mII kit? On a side note, just had a great experience with ECI. Great product and support. Ralph was very helpful!
I've used two different kits from CPP and haven't had these problems at all. I have another booster/mc kit for my 69 Camaro that I haven't installed yet though. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
What is the problem you are trying to fix? I can't tell from the information you supplied in your posts. Are you sure which outlet on the mc is for the rear? Have you adjusted the pedal to booster push rod correctly? If the pedal drops when you start the car the booster is working, regardless what your other cars did.
did you check that the calipers move freely? have someone work the pedal and watch what the calipers are doing.
I've got a pretty good idea they suck everywhere! O'Reilly ain't any better either. I went into the O'Reilly's here looking for a set of tire dollies, the gal behind the counter told me that I would have to go to U-Haul, I told her that I was looking for tire dollies not a car dolly and that they showed them on their website, totally confused she called for the manager. The manager asked me what the problem was, I told him that there wasn't a problem, I just needed a set of tire dollies, he told me that I would have to go to U-Haul! I immediately headed for the door...
my buddy was having problems with a booster from cpp on his 49 chevy also. wouldn't return all the way. their shit is from china as well. just cause He sprayed it black,they said they wouldn't honor the warranty. fuck CPP
Unless I missed a post, it sounds like the rear drum brakes are simply not receiving fluid pressure. Does the "proportioning valve" have a differebntial pressure swithc, like this one ? - http://www.classicperform.com/Instructions/PDF/PVK.pdf If so, is the light on? I'd press and hold the pedal down, and open a bleeder on a front caliper. I expect the pedal will go way down, maybe even to the floor. A big bubble of air in the rear circuit will do that. Getting the air out can be a nightmare.
This behavior is also reminiscent of when I hooked the rear brakes to the front output of the master cylinder. When I attempted to bleed the brakes, it never worked. Switched lines from front to rear, and no problem? Maybe it will make sense to someone else, but I still can't figure out why it made a difference...
If the pressure differential valve which turns on the check brake light has been activated, it may be blocking the fluid to the rear. Open one of the front bleeders and really stomp on the brake pedal and hold it down until the bleeder is closed. This should move the piston back to the centered position if that is the problem. Worth a try an costs nothing..........Toni
Saying, "...my rear brakes don't work..." is no help. Do you get fluid from the bleeders? Are they adjusted properly? Is the brake pedal pushrod long enough? Is the MC below the floor? Lots of simple things can conspire to give you a perplexing problem. I'd look at all that stuff, and then try a power bleeder, rather than complain about somebody on the phone being unable to bail you out given the vague description you gave here. Brian
"A CPP valve for balancing front to rear came with the TCI front end and it is installed correctly" If CPP cannot help you, who says its installed correctly?? OR even needed! Take it out of the system. After you set it all up and drive it, that is when you need to figure out if you need a porportioning valve. (use an adjustable one)
S10 rear end needs torsion bars for the brakes to work properly Double 7 booster requires a special pedal ratio - you need to check it
what is your wheel cylinder and master cylinder bores? had one that bled good, good pedal but rear brakes didn't work right, the wheel cylinders had a small bore, found wheel cylinders that interchanged but with a bigger bore, fixed the problem. that was on an '80's gm 10 bolt.
The "Camaro" or Metric GM front calipers and S-10 rear drums should be a matched set that work well together. I'd think that the whole problem lies in the CPP setup or how you have it hooked up. Being as it's the "chrome" one I imagine it is hung on the firewall. Did you use their pedal or a donor rig pedal? If the pedal ratio is off though you should have a situation where you either have too much leverage or too little leverage when you push the pedal to stop the car. Another thought and it is a bit off the wall is that for some reason you don't have enough travel with the pedal/pushrod' brake booster/master cylinder setup you have. Meaning that it is unlikely but possible that the pedal is bottoming out on something before you get the piston in the master cylinder pushed far enough to properly actuate the rear brakes. I'm still like the others in that personally I think the majority of the problem lies in their "balance" valve. Either it isn't working right or the piston is stuck to one end. I had one on something give me fits in the mid 70's that I had to take all apart and work on to get to work right but the piston had gone so far one way that the brake switch on it was jammed and stuck.
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