well, finally dropped in on the HAMB chat and now we have a question... what is a suicide front end, as i feel that i have been miss using the term... also how about a bulldog fron end? and for that matter any other neat terms that may have been lost to society...
If the new guy here may be so bold... The way I learned it the suicide term refers to the 'spring behind' setup on the front. With the spring in front if something breaks the frame falls on the axle and you can coast to safety, as it were. With the spring behind, if something breaks the frames diggin' right into the asphalt...SUICIDE! Course, I coulda been told wrong.
suicide gets used alot of different ways the way i originaly heard it was in reference to any straight axle setup that uses a pair of quarter eliptical springs, instead of one single leaf spring ive also seen it used in reference to which way the front spring sits on its perch, if the spring is under the perch, its apparently suides style, and if the perch is flipped so the spings on top, which would also lower the front end, somehow its not suicide style anymore but that said, Mojogator definantly sounds like he has it right, i would hate to see what happens when the frame digs in and the car goes for a tumble ... ouch
I've also heard the term used for foot clutches on motorcycles, though almost always wrongly. Suicide M/C clutches are ONLY found on some early four cylinder bikes. Their clutches were sprung just as a car's; let your foot off, and the clutch engages. At a light, this would be suicide!! A twin's clutch pedal is/was designed to stay where you put it. As to front ends, having the spring behind the axle, with nothing to stop the frame from hitting the ground is the suicide front end. To me, this includes having the tie rod in front, because hitting anything with that will also render the car undriveable. Cosmo
I guess you are somewhere close on the clutch, although that would only count on a stock clutch set up with a rocker peddle right. Most of the guys I run with called 'em a Jockey Shift as opposed to a suicide clutch. Different spots for different dots I guess. As for the question, a suicide front end is normally out in front of the ch***is. I'm only about half a century so I'm not going to remember the terminology much before about '59 or so. But what it boils down to is if the axle is hung out in front of the ch***is and you break it the frame is going into the dirt. bad situation at best. Don't ask me how I know that. Never heard term Bull Dog front end, probably a regional thing. I'd ask the guy using it. edit: Actually I was just thinking, we used to say a car was bull dawging when there was too much weight over the front wheels, and it would roll real heavy on the front end when you turned it. Maybe the term refers to one that just isn't built right.
I am not quite sure, but the mount sitting out on it's own was often referred to as a suicide perch, so the spring behind the axle could be a suicide front end or maybe just the idea of a center mount hung out in the air is where it came from. Pat.
what I heard was it is suicide front end when your drag link and tie rods are out in front of the axle - then if you hit anything like a dog - or a some **** in the road - it can turn the steering by knocking the steering rods - then you are out of control - SUICIDE style
the sepia photo, best demonstrates a suicide front end. i always considered mine to be a suicide, but i guess it is just set back? but suicide just sounds better.
Not the same but Suicide Doors mean, the door is hinged from the back, So you could open the door and jump out, Causing death or SUICIDE.
Wow...seems to be many variations on the theme! MY understanding was that a spring above the axle (stockstyle) with a frame behind and using just a center springperch that juts forward to attach to the spring was a BULLDOG perch. If the spring failed the car would drop, but the perch would keep the frame clear of the ground. No part of the framerail is over the axle. A SUICIDE perch was the same frame layout with the spring mounted BEHIND the axle where if anything broke, the frame and/or the spring would drop and slide directly on the ground. I don't think the tierod location plays a part in the name process. Is it really that common to have bending issues with a front mounted tierod? Many 4x4's have them and it can become an issue off road but I haven't heard of any problems in street driving.
bet having one of those open up on you at speed would be very interesting! "hey honey just give it a little tug..."
a suicide clutch earned its name because driving a motorcycle on the street with one was suicide. it's a racing clutch which is either engaged or not engaged. there's no slipping it or feeding it in like a normal clutch. very easy to lose control of the bike and be killed in the process.
It seems like the term now refers to a spring perch mounted in front of the frame crossmember. Back in the Jur***ic we called a suicide axle one so low that if a tire went flat the axle would hit the pavement instead of the car riding on the rim. Something like an axle 4" above the road at it's lowest point and a tire that brought the car up 5".
The Jalopy Journal
