Pro-- you can't burn through the clear when you polish it Pro-- durable Pro-- cheaper than base clear Con-- Metallics don't look good
Definitely a plus with solid colors....Easier to touch-up and when it is buffed, you are actually buffing the paint, not clear, resulting in a better shine
About the only con that i can think of for single stage is the quality of the metallics... if your goin for a straight solid color, just go with a good quality single stage.
Single stage is good for industrial use theese days. The problem is is that 1- if your not a good painter than you have a good chance of getting runs in your job. very hard to fix in a single stage even for us pros. 2-your not getting much or any UV protection, which was a big reason for inventing a clear coat. 3- metallics are **** and dont lay well. 4-its almost impossible to go back into and fix an area if you need to without panel painting and then you better hope the car is always in the garage because sun fade will not match the new stuff and you will see the new verse the old side by side. Base/ Clear is a bit more pricey but it is so much more user friendly its worth it. In my opinion you can save some bucs by painting anything internal or underneath the car in a single stage...even the dash but the outter body you should buy the base/clear for and it wont be much if everything else was done in single stage...this is just my opinion?
Better shine? Obviously you don't know how to buff clear. The jobs I do look like a mirror. 51 pickem up: The single stage paint is great for frames, wheels, suspension components, floorboards (top & bottom) - you get the idea. The body should have base-clear to protect from UV & make spotting in eaiser (in case of damage). You can use clear over it, but there's no reason to not use base-clear in the first place. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
What i meant is that you are actually polishing the paint and not the clear....Once that paint is cleared, your screwed if the base isn't perfect....If. for example you finish your nice shiny black paintjob and roll it out into the sun and lo and behold, a few of Fido's hairs are now a permanently monument to himself in your nice shiny paint, or your gun decides to spit out a piece of that gold metalflake you were shooting last week.........Well, you ain't getting the ****er out.......A single stage is better when there is a risk of these things happening.....Also, your darker colors are much deeper without the clear i feel....I have a '99 black vette that is base/clear from the factory and looks horrible in the sun....It's milky looking which i'm sure is from the clear....If it ever needs a paintjob, it will not be cleared
This is something to think about if I am builden cars and I put a little less clear on each one coming down the ***y line how much money am i gonna save if ya take that times 300,000 cars built.They dont paint them like show cars they are production cars.I would say you are correct in the fact that thats in the clear. But also the preperation of the base or undercoats could be causing it to dye back and this is not the fault of the clear.Now as for somethin gettin in the paint and not bein able to buff it if its in it 2 deep base/clear,centari or any kinda paint it does not matter your gonna be fixin a spot.It is so much easier to wet sand the spot in question blend in some base and reclear the panel than it is to fix single stage. The comment about single stage is for industrial use is correct.Dumpsters,trash trucks,oil barrels good uses.They dont even use the stuff on fleet trucks anymore.It has its place though, but by the time you buy all the additives that you need for it I could not imagine it to be that much cheaper.This is if your buying good named brand stuff Sikkens,Dupont,PPG. IMHO I beleive I could take someone who has never painted in one day and have them spraying there car and it would turn out great using base/clear. Its pretty simple and just about fail proof if ya have someone with experience there.With base while painting and a problem crops up usually it easy to fix let it flash off and fix spot blend in over spot and go on.This can usually be done in 15 or 20 mins with single stage your done till the next day. I agree with comment below.... Quote: Originally Posted by cfish50chevy Single stage is good for industrial use theese days. The problem is is that 1- if your not a good painter than you have a good chance of getting runs in your job. very hard to fix in a single stage even for us pros. 2-your not getting much or any UV protection, which was a big reason for inventing a clear coat. 3- metallics are **** and dont lay well. 4-its almost impossible to go back into and fix an area if you need to without panel painting and then you better hope the car is always in the garage because sun fade will not match the new stuff and you will see the new verse the old side by side. Base/ Clear is a bit more pricey but it is so much more user friendly its worth it. In my opinion you can save some bucs by painting anything internal or underneath the car in a single stage...even the dash but the outter body you should buy the base/clear for and it wont be much if everything else was done in single stage...this is just my opinion? Hope this helps I am done rambling. Shoe
My single stage paint jobs look like they have clear on them. They have mirror finishes. If you are doing a solid color, use SS, for metallics, use BC/CC. Both are perfectly acceptable, and can be "show perfect" if you do them right!
Im glad that you are getting such a great show look shine from the single stage but......Get a spec sheet on it and read the part that has UV protection on there if you can even find a place? I will bet my life on it that the BC/CC job will out shine, last longer, and if ever nessasary would be easier to fix dings, roadchips and you get my drift...Plus how many licks does it take to get to the middle of a whatever that lollypop was ......that becomes your question everytime you buff that singlestage down. With clear...you buff till you have burnt, then reclear with all the color still there from the og paint you put on 10 years ago. Realy when was the last time you blended a single stage paint to fix a ding,dent or road chip in a car and it looked perfect like you were nevr there? (YES, DINGS WILL HAPPEN)I have painted for about 12 years now and worked for PPG and I have never really seen that done without me picking the spot out right away. BC/CC I can never tell..blended to perfection with minor work involved.
I've done blends on single stage and they've come out fine. The reason blends on BC/CC come out "perfect, is because you clear the entire panel. You can paint the entire panel with SS as well. My "opinion" on sunscreen (UV protection) is this. The reason they put it in clear is to prevent the degradation of the clear. It probably helps the base stay bright for a bit longer than without, but today's colors still fade in the sun! Everyone knows how lousy the original BC/CC paint jobs were on new cars. The clear would degrade and flake away from the color. Single stage doesn't do that. The new clears probably don't either, due to the UV screens. This is opinion, though I don't have proof. My credentials? Custom painting for almost 30 years. I've got over 50 full candy and pearl paint jobs under my belt, much more if you include bikes. I can fix and blend candy and pearl paint, have even done repairs on panels with graphics, including ghost flames. That's about as tough as you get!
both have UV protection in them the reason SS still has more fade is that the pigment is right up to the surface and can't be covered fully. A SS will fade more but on a custom or street rod how much sun does it really see? hopefully not 365 days a year and if you drive it that many days a year it will have issues other than just fading ie dings and dents. I like SS for black and white just for the covering up power. Reds fade more and any runs drips and errors that are in them show up oranger when you try to cut them out. Nothing worse that a rottweiler hair in a white paint job I know. BC/CC candys and any flake is a lot easier to deal with.
I painted my hiboy with DuPont ChromaOne, single stage black. My thinking was that black with no clear would look deeper and blacker than a base-coat clear-coat. After it was finished, my 2 friends with fresh black cars with base-clear parked next to eack other and you could not tell a difference between them. But now 6 years later my car is definately blacker than the other 2. It is probably not the paint but care taken with the paint over the years. single stage base-clear base-clear
I think you guys are missing the point here. It's not a debate over single stage/base clear, he's asking about single stage URETHANE paint which is a ****load different than acrylic enamel. I personally use acrylic enamel on my stuff because it has an "original" look. Base/clear jobs can look a mile deep but they also give a modern appearance in the paint. I bet 51 Pickem up would love to hear from somebody who used single stage urethane and compare it to acrylic/synthetic enamel paint.
One thing about clear is that it scratches white where SS black scratches black so if you have tiny scratches in the finish the clear job will start to look milky but that can be fixed with a good buffing. The SS black doesn't show the milky since it is black all the way through
you all have great points but Im thinking we probaly just confused the **** out of this guy......sorry! Poor guy is going to be running primer from now on! which is also just fine with me!
Ps...Chopolds youve got me beat brother...im bowing down as we speak! you have been painting as long as I have been living.... Im out of this thread. I do know more on BC/CC than single stage because Ive been to every dam school selling and using PPG but have only self taught experiences with single stage..so again this is all just my opinion!
Cfish, I'm the opposite side of the coin from you. I have never attended a cl*** in paint or body. Learned all my tricks from an old-timer customizer who was afraid of changing things. He was the best there was back 20-30 years ago. Never learned much production work. All I do is customs, 'cept for the occasional friends/family fender bender. I had to learn all the new stuff on my own, except the custom paint, so I often have misconceptions about the new stuff. I learn a lot from guys like you, and Overspray, and lownslow, ThaDriver, etc.
Yes, you can blend single stage just fine. I agree. But you can also blend clear - you don't have to clear the whole panel. I just blended the clear on a black '55 truck I'm painting. I missed the areas under the folds in the rear panel, so I had to spot them in. you can't tell at all where I blended the clear (or the black). (You have to use blending agent to melt in the edges, just like with SS.) We're not talking original paint here (all factory paint is ****); we're talking about painting something. No; clear doesn't seperate from single stage because there is no clear! But I've never had clear seperate from base coats either. It's FAR better to use base-coat clear-coat than single stage for anything that's going to see the light of day, or that you want to look better & last. There is no UV protection in SS, the clear protects the base colors from fading. Plus it's eaiser for beginners to shoot. My credentials? 38 years doing body repair, paint, & custom work of all types (including painting candies, pearls, flames - you name it). Hell I even custom mixed the paint in some of them, to acheive the desired color/look that the owner wanted. The guy that said SS looks deeper than a clear-coat job - well he's either confused or just hasen't seen much clear-coat. There's no way you can get a deeper look with the light reflecting off the very top surface... Bottom line: Yes you can get a great looking paint job with SS; Base-clear looks better, lasts longer, & is eaiser to shoot. Well worth the difference in price. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Thanks! I do know a little about painting... If you'll allow me to toot my own horn for a sec.; I was one of "the best there was" back 20+ years ago too. I've done custom work including metalflakes in laquer, because that was all there was to use back then that you could buff out. I was one of the first to sand & buff acrylic enamel, & actually get it to shine like laquer. I once painted a porsche speedster for a guy, that said he wanted "mint green pearl". Mint green pearl? Mint? OK........ So I mixed a transparent (read "candy") green mixing color in with the pearl, to get a just-right mint color. It was one of the sharpest looking cars I've ever done! But you have to change with the times. Laquer is all but non-existant, & acrylic enamel is a pain. Single stage urethanes are great, if you want a nice (& very durable) shine without buffing, for things such as frames & suspension components - & it can be buffed if you like. But to really make something last, you can't beat base-coat clear-coat. I use a Sikkens clear, which is very expensive - but it's the best. But cheaper clears are good too: I like the PPG stuff. Hell I even used Nason clear on my ZX (it was just a car I built from two old junks) & it looks great & has lasted well. BTW I worked in a paint store in the early '70s that sold Dupont & PPG/Ditzler. We can all learn from each other - everyone has something to offer. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" No one is listening until you make a mistake.
If you really want to mix it up, we sometimes on a car that has to be super nice, will put down a few med. coats of single stage(on solid colors only) and wait about 30-40 minutes, and then put down a couple coats of clear. It works really well, especially with white, because sometimes basecoat doesnt lay down perfectly flat and can look a tad grainy, and the single stage is nice and smooth. Then I wetsand the whole thing flat with 800, and put on a couple more coats of clear, the results are amazing...
The Jalopy Journal
