Hope this fits into this section, Im still getting used to the new format.... Anyways, I'm working on a car that has a later 302 in it (he says its an '89 motor) and the waterpump and crank pulleys don't line up. The alt pulley and crank do. The pump pulley is about 1/4" or so forward. I noticed that he has an early three bold dampener, I'm wondering if we need to switch to a later damper nd pulley set up, or if there is a waterpump pulley out there that solves this problem?? I have 0 experience with small block Fords, I ***ume this is a pretty common issue.... Thanks in advance for the help!
I've had to press the flange for the pulley further on the waterpump shaft before. SBF pulleys can drive you nuts sometimes.
i had a hard time finding pulley's for my 302. ended up spending way to much money on a crank and water pump pulley set from March. Fords can be difficult to find matching pulley's. different length water pumps, different rotations, different lower hose positions. sometimes I get why so many use small block chevys.
If its an 89 302 it should have a 4 bolt dampener. If it has the wrong balancer 50 oz vs 26 oz it will shake bad. I am almost positive that the face of the balancer is the same distance out from the timing cover on both. [edit] I just looked at mine and I had to make a spacer to go between the balancer and crank pulley. My son made them on the water jet at his work.
Yep, Ford pulleys can be a pain.... If you start mixing front dress parts, it's easy to lose your way. Do check to make sure you have the right 'balance' damper, but be aware that Ford did make a 50oz 3-bolt damper that was used on marine applications. Casually identical except the 28oz version has a recess that the pulley seats into, the 50oz has a lip instead. Best bet is to find a 'set'...
I had the same issue, I went to a junk yard to the pulley rack and found a dual groove water pump pulley for 10 bucks. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I ran into this situation also on a SBF. I had to change the harmonic balancer,water pump, and both pulleys to a complete matching setup. There are so many variables with this engine.
Because it is a Ford engine, be glad you don't have a power steering pump pulley to also line up. I went thru several swap meet pulleys, fabricating bushings, using various brackets (steel & billet) before I dialed it in. There is a reason every Ford pulley has a Part # stamped on it.
There are also spacers...different thickness for the crank pulley..do a search on March or eBay..I had to buy a different spacer and longer bolts for my March crank pulleys.. for my serpentine belt system to line up on my 302. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
To quote Buford Justice "Yo in a heap of trouble boy !" On a 289 in my early Bronco , I ended with a 3 bolt damper ,a double groove off a SBC for the crank and a custom made at work while the boss wasn't looking waterpump pulley, two groove . All I wanted was add a GM Saginaw PS pump to run a Nissan Frontier steering box. I'd start with the balancer making sure it is the proper balance for the engine and work up from there.
Let's see if I can do this again without the website logging me out and erasing my typing... As others have stated, Ford made some engineering changes over the years. 1962-1969 small blocks all had a 3 bolt balancer, a water pump with a p***enger side inlet, a timing pointer on the driver side, and 28oz of imbalance in the balancer. In these years, balancers and pulleys should interchange, along with accessory brackets. From 1970 until sometime in the 1980's, all small blocks had a 4 bolt balancer, a water pump with driver side inlet, a timing pointer on the p***enger side, and 28oz of imbalance. Exceptions may be early Broncos and trucks/vans for a few years. The accessory brackets and pulleys changed in an effort to make parts interchange between a greater range of Ford engine families (By 1970, there were Windsor style small blocks, Cleveland style 335 series small blocks, Cleveland headed Windsor blocks, FE's, and 385 series big blocks all in use). The thickness of the small block balancer changed, and location of the pulley hub on the water pump relative to the timing cover changed. The accessory brackets were all revised, and dish on the pulleys changed. Sometime in the early 1980's, the imbalance on the 302 changed to 50oz, while the 351W stayed at 28oz. Around 1985, the belt style changed from V belt to serpentine, changing all the pulleys, and the water pump (with inlet still on the driver side) started spinning the opposite direction. Not sure if the timing pointer moved, also not sure if the thickness of the balancer changed again. Long story short, try to get the water pump, balancer, pulleys, and brackets from the same engine when possible! Beware that many aftermarket balancers come in a universal, one-size-fits-all configuration. They can have bolt one weights to accommodate 0oz, 28oz, and 50oz imbalance with one part, and can be drilled for both 3 and 4 bolt balancers. This style is usually the same thickness as the 1969 and older balancer, and can have several sets of timing marks. These universal balancers may or may not require spacers to be installed between the balancer and pulley to get belt alignment. Ford SVO and others sell several different spacers with varying thicknesses for this issue. The earlier pieces typically have a nice pulley ratio, with the water pump slightly under driven due to smaller crank pulleys and larger water pump pulleys. In the 70's, when everything got smogged out, the crank pulleys got huge and the water pump pulleys shrank to spin the water pump and accessories faster. Nice if all you do is idle, not so much if you are going to wring it's neck every now and then. I have successfully used the early style 3 bolt balancers with the later style driver side exit water pump. I used the early style 3 bolt pulley (with no spacer between balancer), pressed the water pump pulley flange about 1/4-inch farther onto the shaft, used an FE water pump pulley, and modified the early style alternator brackets. Added benefit was that the FE water pump pulley was about 6 3/4-inches in diameter and really under drove the water pump. Looked clean and held belts at 6,500+ rpm. I'm sure others can ad to this, but that's my experience. Hope this helps someone... IF you aren't sure what years of parts you are dealing with, remember Fords alphanumeric parts numbering system (in the US at least). "C" as the first character means decade of 1960's, "D" means 1970's, "E" means 1980's. etc. The second character will be a number for the year in that decade, i.e. "C6" means 1966. This can be helpful to determine general ages, as some parts were used unrevised for several years and kept the same part number year to year. So if you have a C3AE-6312-E crank pulley, and a D8OE-8509-AB water pump pulley, be prepared that they may not work well together... (For the truly interested, 6312 is the generic Ford engineering number for a crank pulley since the late 1950's. They all have this number sequence somewhere in the code. 8509 is the generic engineering number sequence for a water pump pulley since the same time frame, they all have that number sequence in there somewhere)
I used the Ford Racing pulley set (M-8509-EM) and a Ford Racing shorty water pump (M-8501-E351S) and a March bracket kit. Pricey but no issues.
If you want to know the real lowdown on SBF pullies it is here,scroll down to post #5 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303600&highlight=ford+short+water+pump
Frankenfords, what is involved in pressing the water pump flange? Can you just use a press and a large socket? Does the pump need to come apart?
I'd say a press and large socket would work. I wrapped the water pump housing with damp rags, heated the pulley hub with a torch, and tapped it to where I needed it with a socket and hammer. I didn't take the back cover off the pump before I did this, in fact I did it while installed on the engine, and never had a problem.
Excellent information there, thanks for the addition. Seems I was wrong on the age of the change from 28oz to 50oz imbalance on the 302 and the change over to serpentine belts.
I had the Same problem last week on my 87 302. I had been sold the wrong water pump. F150s and mustangs had different water pumps. Not sure if this helps. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
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