Projects My '23 Roadster project

Welp, finally bit the bullet and got started on this project. I have been wanting to build one for years and years and just never have. I think the main reason why is because I just couldn't settle on 'what' I wanted. I don't really care for the jacked up T-buckets with huge tires and 3 story windshields, etc. I just knew I wanted something sleek and different, but still with a traditional style. I don't have much artistic ability so it was kinda hard for me to really envision what I wanted. Fast forward to just a few months ago when I finally got an eyeball on a Speedway Motors Tribute T - man, that's basically what I had in mind, I just couldn't make it happen. So, after many hours of research I have finally laid the keel of my own "Tribute T". It will be similar in appearance, but not identical. It will be my own. Here's a few pics of what I have so far:

106" wheelbase





I centered the diff, not the pinion. I did it this way because that's just how I wanted to do it...lol. I am hoping the offset pinion isn't going to create any serious vibration. I am running a 2.75 gear in that axle, should be ok.

 

That is true to an extent. Typically any shaft with two universals in it will perform very well, even at high speeds - just so long as the offset is only occurring in one plane...and the angles are identical. As soon as you create an offset in more than one plane then you open up a whole n'other can of worms. The problems it creates though are usually negligible at lower shaft speeds, however they will worsen exponentially as shaft speed increases. The length and diameter of the shaft also figures into this equation - usually the shorter the shaft the less problems you will have. I am hopeful that my short driveshaft and tall gear are going to eliminate the possibility of problems.

You're right about the appearance though - that's why I did it. I didn't want the pumpkin offset in my spring arch. Woulda looked like **** on a white rag.

 

do you have a way to keep the angle iron braces from getting bumped and goin a bit 'diamond' on you? probably not tooo much of an issue though if you have good trammel bar when doing the susp mounts

 

Its not really an issue, that's 3/16" angle, it's pretty stout. The holes that are drilled in it for the lugnut studs are also tapered - they're bolted up tight. I have checked it for square and it's square. You couldn't skew it if you tried.

 

Been a few weeks since I last updated this thread. Here's some new pics



And a slideshow...

I think its going to turn out just right. The engine is just mocked up there, its not really in the exact spot it will be in eventually. I need to get it rigged up so that it's suspended by the ch***is so I can see how it reacts to the weight.

 

Are those radius rods mounted upside down? Or does it not matter? I always thought the straight bar goes on top?

 

I reckon its just a matter of opinion. I have seen them both ways. I chose this way to help facilitate a desired ride height. This car will be very low to the ground. Although its not going to be identical, its stance will be very similar to the Speedway Tribute T. It has the same wheelbase - 106".

 

Finally got my body yesterday - $285 off of ebay. I decided to just buy a plain basic body with no floor in it since nothing about the car so far is following anyone else's plans. I didn't want to spend extra money to get a body with a channeled floor already in it and then just end up having to cut it all up. I just figured I'd start from scratch and save some cash. In this picture below I have already channeled the body down over the frame and its sitting where it will be sitting permanently. I have the rear radius rods flipped upside down temporarily so that it will fit in place there - I'll have to make some holes in the lower portion of the rear side of the body for them p*** through eventually. I'll get to that later this week.



Here's a pic I took with it just sitting on top of the frame before I channeled it. Its really amazing how much difference that little 3" makes in the overall appearance of the car....

 

I'm planning on using a reversed Corvair steering box on this ch***is - already have the box, just need to reverse it. I was wondering if I could get some folks that have cars similar to mine that are also using a Corvair box to post up some pics of their steering arrangements - steering column installation as well. Need some ideas.

 

Tie rod out front will cause problems with the steering. A line from center of king pins to center of rear end housing with the tie rod end intersecting this line .take a piece of string hold it on top of the king pin have a buddy hold the other end of the string at the center of the rear end housing .then you can see the problems this causes here is a photo of my cars front end

 

Here you go:



Make sure you have clearance on the headers, nothing like having to move things around after the fact.



Here is how I mounted my column. No upper support used.

 

Not sure I follow what you're saying here.

*Edit* I think I lost sleep lastnight trying to make heads or tails out of what you're trying to say here. I think I have finally decided that you were either drunk, full of **** or both. I'm going to disregard it all together.



Thanks for those pictures, Keep. That helps me a lot.

 

Hey, m58;

34PC isn't fulla sh.. . What he described was the way to get the steering arms' tierod hole in the correct location so's to utilize the correct ackerman steering principle. Good steering manners, etc. What he didn't do was finish the comment. To properly view what he was taking about, would of course require an overhead view, looking straight down so the string, that is strung tightly from the center of the kingpin to the center of the rear axle (& not always of the pumpkin -but literally half-way 'twixt each outside end of the axle ends), intersects the center of the tierod hole, of the steering arms that are bent *inward* towards the frame. For a front-mounted tierod, the sting would be laid out just as before - but extended further beyond the kingpin (still going through the center of it) maybe 8", so that center of the tierod hole *still* will fall underneath string. to do this, the steering arms need to be bent *out* towards the wheel. It can be very difficult to get them out far enough for proper ackerman, depending on what size & offset wheel you're running. BTW, the steering arm ends also need to be level w/each other in a horizontal plane. I can't do pics here, but the old Total Performance had it figured out properly for their wheelbase. (& it will change w/different wheelbases - but the principle is the same in any case). Believe Andy Brizio did it properly also, + others. Might want to google them, or find some guys that still run their stuff, since there's a lot of it out there yet. Also believe Wintec Fabrication has a lot of the old Total Performance stuff. I'm sure he'd be willing & happy to help. Hope this explanation is a bit easier to digest & visualize.

Marcus...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

Ackerman angle
When a vehicle turns a corner, all the wheels must turn through a common centre in order that they may have a true rolling action and not scrub across the road surface. Although this is impossible to achieve under all conditions, it was found by a man named Ackerman, that by inclining the steering arms towards each other so that a line projected from each kingpin meets at a point on the centre-line of the vehicle just ahead of the rear axle, then almost true rolling action is obtained. The rear wheels are fixed to a solid axle and therefore this centre of rotation must lie on a line projected through the rear axle.

 

Ok - I know about the Ackerman principle, I just didn't make the connection when I was trying to read and understand peecup's grammatical masterpiece there. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I realize the arrangement I have probably doesn't meet the spec that Ackerman sets, however there is a reason it is the way it is. This is a budget build and I am utilizing a lot of parts that I already had. Those steering arms were actually at one point set up for a cross steer arrangement. I cut the 2nd tierod mount off of one of them. They're also not long enough to be reversed and have the tierod go behind the front axle - through my radius rods. It just is what it is. I'm not planning on running the 24hrs of LeMans with this thing and I probably won't ever even wear out a set of tires on it. For driving in a straight line down the road - which is what I will be doing with it 99.9% of the time - I think it will work just fine. In fact, the trac-loc diff that I have in the rear axle is probably going to give more problems with steering than my front end geometry ever will...lol.

 

mechanic58, I have lurked on the HAMB forever. I am slowly collecting parts to build a T bucket. There is an awful lot of experienced builders on here that have been there, done that, and have the T shirt to prove it. They are trying to help you do it right as can be done as you build it, and not have to redo too many things. For what my opinion is worth to you, which is probably very little or none at all, you should take to heart what they are trying to tell you. Ted Brown and I email each other about once a week as I pick his brain for ideas on building a T bucket. I will add one thing that Ted Brown has told me and has stated many times, drive it unpainted for at least a 1000 miles so you will not mess up the paint or powder coating when you have to reweld or change brackets to make the T bucket drive properly. That's my 2 cents worth and you can take it or leave it, but I would pay attention to what the others are trying to tell you.
Ron A

 

X2 ^

 

lol...I do plan on some un-painted test drive miles for sure.

 

Hey, M58;

If those steering arms are *forged*, they can be bent to proper shape w/heat from an ox/act torch. If they are cast, uhm, no. It's still worth it to try to get it as close as possible. It *does* make a difference. & I'm guessing that they'd have to be bent 'till they come w/in a cats' hair of the backing plate indentation. Or maybe try to buy used Total Performance steering arms. They'd be better than what's on there now. Still, your call.

Marcus...

Marcus...

 

Wen I got my 26 T it had the tie rod out front and just pushing it around a bend in the driveway one front tire had to brake traction. You must have toe out on curves, you will have severe toe in. Is that what you want ? Do it right and make it safe !! I did ! JW

 

Your at***ude is fine if you are only going to drive this thing on closed private roads but what will happen if you decided that it isn't really the fun car you wanted and decide to sell. Do the job correctly once and safely and then you don't have any more sleepless nights. Here is a picture of mine.

 

They are forged and I did consider heating and bending them so that I could fit the tierod behind the axle but they're just not long enough to be bent into the position they'd need to be in to give enough clearance for the tierod to work behind the axle. When I say behind the axle, I mean the tierod p***ing through my radius rods, not above them. I do not want the tierod up high behind the axle. I have always thought that looks like ****. Its probably just going to stay right where its at - at least until I get a chance to drive it and decide whether or not it would be worth the trouble of re-engineering it. Part of the problem I have here is that axle has a 5" drop - it makes making all of this geometry work a little bit tricky. So far I haven't found any off the shelf parts that will bolt on and put my tierod where it really needs to be to make Mr. Ackerman happy.

 

Your arrangement looks pretty good - but you have a much different designed car than mine. I have seen some guys put their tie rods up so high in the back that its literally half way up the radiator.

 

Just to be clear here - I have not used anyone else's plans to build this car. I started from scratch with just 2 specs in mind - wheelbase and ride height. I have made just about everything so far except the radius rods and the front axle. But even the front axle was custom built to my 5" drop spec. Most of those tube axles you buy are either 4" or 6" drop. A friend of mine made the axle for me. I made the rear axle myself - it came out of a '70s Ford van - I shortened it and centered the pumpkin. Here's a little better pic of that I'm working with here:

 

Well you won't need a park brake, just turn the front wheels out and it won't move. I'm glad i'm in NZ as I don't ever want to meet this on the road. I was a mechanic till 30 years ago and now do engineering and have a knowledge of front end geometry setup and engineering and can see many ways to achieve what has to be done to make it RIGHT. But you seem to have all the answers why you can't. Cars like this and their drivers should be kept of the road !!!!!! JW

 

Making a little more progress on this car. Got the engine and the steering box mounted where I want them finally. I'm really pleased with the stance of the car, it looks even better than I imagined. I am planning on correcting the steering geometry, I just haven't gotten to it yet. I will probably do that last. Here's a few pics I took today:

 

looks great, like the stance....

 

Nice little project you have there, really coming together nicely.

Curt

 

Thanks guys. I need to get back on it soon, too many distractions lately.

 

Is it me or is there a whole lot of positive camber on those front tires? HRP