What's your opinion on ken kromik universal primer? To save time I'm thinking of blasting and priming my '53 210. It's only an extra 200.00 to prime it and I know with my "pop up" distraction it would save me from it flashing after taking it to bare metal. That said, here's my game plan. Please critique. Keep in mind I'm green to painting. -blast/prime - follow up with dp90 epoxy - cut it in - get it back together and line it up - get it to someone who knows what they are doing on paint and body. Thanks Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I run a fabrication business and we do a couple of restorations a year. We take them to bare metal with either chemical stripping or media blasting. We use metal prep and then DP40 over the bare metal. After that we start body work and use the Evercoat Slick Sand. We go over that with K36 primer (PPG) and then paint. I think that this "universal primer" is just that....Universal! Go with the DP over bare metal that has been metal prepped and conditioned, can't think of those numbers off the top of my head, but it's something that PPG makes and any paint supply store will know what you are talking about. Remember it doesn't cost very much to have your car painted... It cost a lot to get it ready to paint!
Just primed the long roof on my wagon with KBS RustSeal. It flowed out and filed the minor pits on it's own - no sanding needed - krazy stuff!
Sounds good. Yea I figured 200.00 to have it primed is worth it because I know something will come up then ill have a rusted car. I may ask him if I bring the primer will he use it in lieu of his. And x2 on paints cheap it the body work that's expensive. And that why I don't want to do it cuz I know it will look like hammered $&17 Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Using a "universal" primer could be a really bad thing... Most blasting shops don't really care about what you plan to put on top of the product they are using. This is the foundation of you clear coat. Meaning that you do this first and everything else will be expected to stick to this one simple step. The primer is just as important as the top coat. I'm not saying his stuff is bad, I'm saying it is unknown and you shouldn't trust it if you don't know it. We have a job in the shop right now that is requiring over 300 gallons of paint and 150 gallons of primer. We went with an unknown product and it has been a nightmare that has cost us many 10's of thousands of dollars in labor. All because we trusted a product that we did not know and trusted a company to sell us the correct product. We have had to respray 40 gallons of paint due to poor adhesion. It is not the respraying of paint that has been the major problem. It has been removing the bad product once the problem was identified. Either have them spray a good automotive product like DP40 (or 30,50,60, etc. Just different colors) or do it yourself. If you can't find the time or money to do it right the first time....Where are you going to find the time or money to do it right the second time?
I just stripped the cab of my truck. I sprayed a translucent etch and then an omni primer an hour later. I don't remember the numbers at this time, but they were recommended by my local auto paint supplier. anyway, can I scuff the primer and use filler (evercoat lightweight) over the top of that, or should I strip it back to bare metal? I've seen people do it both ways, but what is the preferred methos?
DP40 LF or the new LV is the best foundation you can have, you have several days to recoat it withiout sanding, PPg recomends using "mud" over the top of it, and it seals and adheres to the bare metal really well. If you etch the metal first correctly, it sticks even better. JMHO
The etch was more than likely an epoxy primer. The Omni primer is a less expensive PPG product that works ok. I would guess that the etch was also Omni. It was translucent because that stuff is pretty thin, but most of the epoxy primer is. You are fine to do body work over both. There have been many opinions on how to start body work. And I'm sure some will pop up here. I run a business that has to warranty the work. We do a lot of work that goes into museum around the country. The work has to be right the first time and not have any issues. I have tried a lot of products and methods over the years. My dad is a painter by trade and had been at the same dealership for over 20 years. This is the only profession he has ever done. I was doing body and paint work from a very very young age. I have put cheap bondo over bare metal and a lot of other things that didn't work so well....They worked, but not very well.
Best advice I can give you is use a reputable brand of paint, use it from first coat priomer till last coat of finish, all as recommended by the manufacturer. Never understood the ego of a painter who thought he was smarter than the paint manufacturers and their chemical engineers., using one brand of primer and an other of surfacer, then another base coat and another clear coat, asking for trouble. My Brookville body was blasted lightly to remove cheap red oxide applied after stamping by Brookville, without proper cleaning and etching, and they tell you to remove it as it's only there to prevent rust till you get it. Then after a scuffing with 180, blowing out the dust, etc., it was degreased, metal prepped, then sprayed with DP90, inside, outside, and underneath. Then the inside, underside, and the mating surfaces for fenders etc. were sprayed with a coat of the finish polyurethane single stage finish paint. Primer isn't waterproof and shouldn't be left as the only protection for the body metal,, even between mating surfaces such as a fender and it's mounting surface on the body.You can do bodywork right over DP90 and the other colors of the same pmer It's epoxy based, self etching, and adheres very well to body metal. Filler will adhere as well to the primer as to metal and the epoxy primer have at least as much adherence properties as the filler. Once the body work is completed, reprime the spots worked, apply high build primer and block sand,re apply high buildand block again till guide coat blocking looks OK, then apply paint as per man. rec. I have a high degree of doubt in these guys who think they know more than the manufacturer.
I work in a fab shop, as aProject mgr/Production Coodinator, been there 21 years.....we build Industrial storage silos and tanker bodies for trucks.... we build, paint and ship about 700 silos and tanks per year..... That being said, we did use Kem Kromic (that you asked about) for a primer on our equipment... this was back in the '90s, and have not used since about '99 (we were using Acrylic Enamel as topcoat back then).... there are much better, more durable, products out there.... Do yourself a favor and epoxy prime it... Tom
All DP primers will be either LF or LV. They have not sold the straight DP in the U.S. for at least 15 years.
Well it looks like ill be asking if hell let me bring my own primer Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
The etch I was recommended by the Auto Paint supplier is Autobody Master Professional Super Etch #8462 and the primer was Omni MP282. Do you guys in the know think I am OK to continue with filler over the top of these products? Also do I need to scuff them before applying the filler or is that a wasted step? Thanks!
Exactly, and there are NO moisture-proof or water-proof epoxy primers in any automotive refinish product line. The DP epoxies have a film build of around .5 mil per coat, which means that at least 3 to 5 coats would be minimum thickness for any protection from moisture. DP primers are "moisture resistant" not "moisture proof". If you buy a bullet-proof vest, would you prefer "bullet-proof" or "bullet resistant"? The tech sheet for DP epoxy recommends an etch primer be applied first, for best corrosion protection, and a filler primer or topcoat after the DP. ****From the PPG tech sheet for DP.******************************************** Film build of 1.21.5 mils of DPLF is required or the surface must be treated with Metal Cleaner/Conditioner or coated with DX 1791/1792. *************************************************************************** There are other epoxy primers in other automotive refinish lines that have more film build per coat. There are NO epoxy primers that are self etching. Epoxy sticks to the surface it's applied to by mechanical adhesion. Epoxy primers have NO acid to etch the metal. Most automotive finishes are similarly applied, since the 1920's, in these basic steps. 1) Raw steel is usually phosphated, which is close to what the average person can do with a 2 part metal conditioner (phosphoric acid) followed by the conversion coating. The phosphate coating shows up as a goldish tone on cars from the 1920's probably into the 1950's or 1960's, and a grayish tone after that. It is a crucial layer in rust/corrosion protection, and when you remove factory paint and primer with abrasives by blasting or grinding, you will remove this layer of protection. I don't know of any primers, epoxy or others that can provide the same protection as the factory phosphate coating on the bare steel. (Self etching primers can provide some phosphate protection, but should not be used if a metal conditioner (acid) has been used to prep or phosphate the bare steel.) 2) This is followed by a primer. Early on it was enamel or lacquer-brushed or sprayed on, later, around the 1970's, it was "E-coat" or a primer that was applied by electro deposition, the part/steel was charged with a negative charge and the primer/coating was charged with a positive charge. Electro deposition or electrostatic application makes the coating bond "tighter" with the surface of the metal as the magnetic or electric charge pulls the 2 together. This type of system is usually not available to the average person. 3)Following the E-coat or primer there may or may not be another primer for filling imperfections (sanding) or a sealer applied before the topcoat or color coat is applied. 4) Color/paint is the next step, from brushed on shellac based coatings in the early teens or 1920's, through enamel and lacquer coatings, and up to the high tech base coat/clear coat finishes we have today. All these steps make up the complete film that protects the metal. Together they must also have enough film thickness to slow down the effects of weather, chemicals, moisture, and ultra violet rays. For the first timer, it is going to require lots of research, practice, and asking experienced professionals for information. Cleaning and prepping an old car body for a refinish just boils down to a lot of work. It is a great learning experience, and with the internet, a lot of great information is at your fingertips. Chose your products from good information you can gather from technical data and experienced people. Find a reliable system and learn how to perform the steps properly to prep and apply the products for that system. Technical data sheets or product information sheets will tell you what is recommended to prepare the surface for that product. They will not teach or tell you how to do the actual work. The HAMB is a good place to start. "Search" and read lots, then try sort out the good from the bad info. Pick a course that will accomplish your goals and meet your available time and budget. overspray
Sherwin Williams "Kem Kromic" is an alkyd based primer and the tech info says it's OK with urethanes and strong solvents. I'm skeptical, though, and it is rust "inhibitive" which doesn't say a lot. http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-25945:product-6766 overspray
I would 2nd that, I do know this though, I have used rusty metal type alkyd enamel primers on acid prepped and plain bare steel. Once this primer was fully cured, I have used 2 k urethane primer./surfacers, lacquer based primers, without any issues whatsoever. I do not make a blanket statement claiming this will work for all, but in my case it worked well. i had no subsequent adhesion issues for years later. A Friend in Georgia taught me to do this, not for everyone, and not for those in a time rush, this type of primer must be FULL CURED, before shooting anything over it.i also have done all filler work over this type of primer, once fully cured, with again no adhesion disasters,wrinkling etc. I realize this is the low budget way of doing things, and if you can afford a better product such as PPG epoxy primer, that would be your best co**** of action. But my post is in no way suggesting doing what I have done, nor to discount solid reputable advice that has been given...all the best
Ok, novist here again, should have my car back next week, blasted and primed. That said what now. Ha. Before I "cut in" anything how many coats of epoxy primer should I lay down. (I am planning on using PPG DP90) also I think I am going to attempt some homemaid lizard skid. Should I put that directly on epoxy primer or should I cut that area in also before applying? Thx Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Click on the tech info https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProdu...roductID=c98c3f28-89c5-467d-9983-e87c240f4c09 By "cut in" do you mean: CUT-IN": Painting of the edges of parts before installation. Paint terminology: http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Page/Paint+Terminology
Thanks overspray. Helps a lot. And yes I meant cut-in in my previous question. I haven't done much painting and none on a car so expect a bunch of questions. Ha Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
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